Legal action against AT price indicators

[New year revolutions...... 197]

Becky you need to chill

I have known plenty of motortraders go do lally dong this job

One was buried last month and I didn't even get the chance to say goodbye because of motor trader politics

I seriously suggest you just stand back and reappraise if this job is for you

Please

[ak071 4]

11 minutes ago, EPV said:

 

Don't you think that a massive organisation like AT would have consulted legal experts? And you think Trading Standards (who are little more than glorified Citizens Advice workers) know better than a £300 per hour solicitor that Autotrader probably hired?

 

 

Have you spoken to Autotrader reps? Have you heard any of the masterclasses? Heard any of the branding, marketing directors? if you have you will have gathered they are completely deluded 99% of the time, consulted legal experts, i dont think so

Massive organisations means nothing, Car Supermarkets are massive, is the quality of the cars, sales teams very good, im sure you will agree no, same as autotrader, employ staff who are experts at talking, only issue is they talk total nonsense.

The revenue they make is not because of their staff, it is from dealers who are doing their job right, not them 

[beckly car sales 1]

1 hour ago, have a word with the wife said:

read autotraders way of valuing vehicles, give you a clue its in the small print of value my car

To ensure our prices are accurate, we combine data from:

 

• 

  over half a million car adverts on our site

• 

  over 3,500 dealer websites

• 

  values from major car auctions

• 

  ex-fleet and leasing car values

   

  ok ?

  i do not do as i am told, EVER, HAVE NOT USED AUTOTRADER FOR MORE YEARS THAN I CARE TO REMEMBER AND DO NOT LET THEM TELL ME HOW TO VALUE MY CARS, OR WHICH CARS TO BUY, AS SEEMS TO APPLY TO YOU, APOLOGY EXPECTED 

oh deary deary me

8 minutes ago, New year revolutions...... said:

Becky you need to chill

I have known plenty of motortraders go do lally dong this job

One was buried last month and I didn't even get the chance to say goodbye because of motor trader politics

I seriously suggest you just stand back and reappraise if this job is for you

Please

I'm fine mate, ill still be here for a while well thats not garenteed at all but it won't be because of this game i go.I get what your saying though. Ive had good sales and quiet times,sold some for cost but no loss.It will take an awfull lot for me to quit.

[EPV 631]

7 minutes ago, ak071 said:

Im totally with you with this, I think there is a legal challenge relating to Autotrader price indicators, but from a consumer prospective,

A Good price indicator for example being used for a vehicle with no service history and 10+ owners and a huge list of MOT advisories This is clearly misleading customers as these are not taken into account with the indicators. The reality is there must be customers who have been stung by this but we will never know who these people are as they do not have a forum like this to post on, Autotrader will certainly know who they are but will not share this information, The number however small will definitely exist

I totally disagree with the points that Autotrader are fixed on not removing price indicators, They are a business, they are there to make money, not help dealers or offer customers transparency, plain simple make money, bring more people to the directory, hence more sales, they believe this will bring more customers to them or help them to keep up with other platforms who implement price indicators,

One thing is for sure, if a few hundred dealers all spoke up and made themselves heard at the Autotrader headquarters, im sure they would get the result they want, unfortunately this wont happen as most dealers are concerned about the now and not where this is heading. its a shame,

the autotrader terms and conditions allow them to cancel your account if you take legal action against them, the solution here is only if dealers formed an organisation to safeguard themselves against obstacles like this, will it happen, no, as most are struggling and happy head is above water while others are sinking 

They aren't misleading customers. 

A car with no service history and 10+ owners and a huge list of advisories isn't what they are basing their valuation on. They are very clear on what they base their "good condition" on and are clear as to what devalues a car.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-valuation/valuation-conditions

It's not up to AT to determine every car's number of owners, history, MOT advisories and so on. They take a benchmark of condition, apply a price to it and wallop. Clearly if they have already told the customer that higher owners, lack of history, short MOT's etc devalue a car then they have done as much as they need to.

Again, as I said above, they haven't just done something without taking cognisance of what they are doing legally. 

7 minutes ago, ak071 said:

Have you spoken to Autotrader reps? Have you heard any of the masterclasses? Heard any of the branding, marketing directors? if you have you will have gathered they are completely deluded 99% of the time, consulted legal experts, i dont think so

Massive organisations means nothing, Car Supermarkets are massive, is the quality of the cars, sales teams very good, im sure you will agree no, same as autotrader, employ staff who are experts at talking, only issue is they talk total nonsense.

The revenue they make is not because of their staff, it is from dealers who are doing their job right, not them 

Right yeah, I mean, it's account managers and masterclass takers who deal with corporate governance, legal issues, HR and so on, right? I've spoken to plenty of account managers. They all read off the same song sheet. Who writes that song sheet? People paid a lot of money. Do the people who pay these salaries allow their employees to just spout whatever, say whatever, do whatever etc? 

The revenue they make is from a small but very rich percentage of the dealer pie. Do you think they have 30 data scientists sitting in Manchester costing over a million a year in salaries just for shits and giggles? Or is it because they can sell products like Retail Accelerator at tens of thousands a month to franchises and supermarkets? If they were generally concerned about the impact of price markers on small dealers, why have they done this? The reality is, they don't give a toss about people like me. I don't make them very much money. Why would they.

[ak071 4]

5 minutes ago, EPV said:

They aren't misleading customers. 

A car with no service history and 10+ owners and a huge list of advisories isn't what they are basing their valuation on. They are very clear on what they base their "good condition" on and are clear as to what devalues a car.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-valuation/valuation-conditions

It's not up to AT to determine every car's number of owners, history, MOT advisories and so on. They take a benchmark of condition, apply a price to it and wallop. Clearly if they have already told the customer that higher owners, lack of history, short MOT's etc devalue a car then they have done as much as they need to.

Again, as I said above, they haven't just done something without taking cognisance of what they are doing legally. 

Ok, everybody entitled to their opinion for sure,

I understand your points, going off the points you mention if you had a vehicle that was 1 owner, full main agent history in excellent condition, with a decent spec, it would most likely fit in the high price bracket, because of what it is , and the buying cost,

Why would Autotrader palce a red marker next to it, RED, ASSOCIATED WITH LETHAL DANGER, WARNING, PREVIOUSLY USED FOR CAT C, and if you missed that we have a speedometer with you revving off the screen, i think all this would make most people think twice as the psychology behind the illustrations would deter them, 

 

16 minutes ago, EPV said:

They are very clear on what they base their "good condition" on and are clear as to what devalues a car.

 

They are actually not clear at all, the only clear thing is the colour of the price marker, the speedometer, and the word, low, good, fair and HIGH

[beckly car sales 1]

just been on the forum home page and this topic has got a red indicator on it saying hot lol looks like the dreaded high price

 

[EPV 631]

4 minutes ago, ak071 said:

Ok, everybody entitled to their opinion for sure,

I understand your points, going off the points you mention if you had a vehicle that was 1 owner, full main agent history in excellent condition, with a decent spec, it would most likely fit in the high price bracket, because of what it is , and the buying cost,

Why would Autotrader palce a red marker next to it, RED, ASSOCIATED WITH LETHAL DANGER, WARNING, PREVIOUSLY USED FOR CAT C, and if you missed that we have a speedometer with you revving off the screen, i think all this would make most people think twice as the psychology behind the illustrations would deter them, 

 

They are actually not clear at all, the only clear thing is the colour of the price marker, the speedometer, and the word, low, good, fair and HIGH

Read the link. Properly. 
 

The guide prices we provide takes into account the average specification of a car and will give you some idea of what the car might be worth. However, many factors can influence value, including:

Overall condition

Cars of similar ages can have vastly different levels of wear and damage.

Number of owners

Typically, cars with more previous owners are worth less, especially if they lack documentation too.

Optional extras

Features like sat navs, leather seats and panoramic sunroofs can bump up the value.

Colour

Certain colours can be more desirable, depending on current trends and fashions.

Service history

Cars are worth more with a fully-documented service history.

MOT

Buyers often pay more for a long MOT.

 

It literally could not be clearer what AT base their valuations on and what affects the price of cars, up or down  

 

[Rory RSC 596]

I’ve grown to like Autotrader. 
my lowest cost per sale this month of any advertising platform. Responsible for dropping my stock in front of people far and wide in the UK. 
great product and great platform when it used correctly. 
 

sold a good few high price ones. They were priced high for a reason.  Customers knew that and still bought.

Buyers aren’t stupid, autotrader aren’t stupid but your crusade is and could be better spent doing something useful. Have you got pictures/video / good description of everything online. 

[ak071 4]

1 minute ago, EPV said:

Read the link. Properly. 
 

The guide prices we provide takes into account the average specification of a car and will give you some idea of what the car might be worth. However, many factors can influence value, including:

Overall condition

Cars of similar ages can have vastly different levels of wear and damage.

Number of owners

Typically, cars with more previous owners are worth less, especially if they lack documentation too.

Optional extras

Features like sat navs, leather seats and panoramic sunroofs can bump up the value.

Colour

Certain colours can be more desirable, depending on current trends and fashions.

Service history

Cars are worth more with a fully-documented service history.

MOT

Buyers often pay more for a long MOT.

 

It literally could not be clearer what AT base their valuations on and what affects the price of cars, up or down  

 

yes, i think this is similar to terms and conditions in a mobile phone contract for example, small print, hidden away, hover over and may be a chance you see it, cant hover over it on mobile phone or tablet, with £1.99 per month line rental then increasing to £1.99 a day

[beckly car sales 1]

1 minute ago, Rory RSC said:

I’ve grown to like Autotrader. 
my lowest cost per sale this month of any advertising platform. Responsible for dropping my stock in front of people far and wide in the UK. 
great product and great platform when it used correctly. 
 

sold a good few high price ones. They were priced high for a reason.  Customers knew that and still bought.

Buyers aren’t stupid, autotrader aren’t stupid but your crusade is and could be better spent doing something useful. Have you got pictures/video / good description of everything online. 

im not on a crusade .im not happy with indicators at all regardless of all your above points,its not about my business its purely about the indicators

[Rory RSC 596]

2 minutes ago, beckly car sales said:

im not on a crusade .im not happy with indicators at all regardless of all your above points,its not about my business its purely about the indicators

I’ll give you £500 if you can get them to drop the price markers by the end of 2020.

[EPV 631]

14 minutes ago, ak071 said:

yes, i think this is similar to terms and conditions in a mobile phone contract for example, small print, hidden away, hover over and may be a chance you see it, cant hover over it on mobile phone or tablet, with £1.99 per month line rental then increasing to £1.99 a day

Doesn’t matter really mate it’s there. That’s all they need. 

[ak071 4]

18 minutes ago, EPV said:

Doesn’t matter really mate it’s there. That’s all they need. 

agreed, but doesnt offer customers transparency, which is what autotrader have said had been introduced for

[EPV 631]

7 minutes ago, ak071 said:

agreed, but doesnt offer customers transparency, which is what autotrader have said had been introduced for

They can’t exactly put all of that text into one pop up box can they 

[ak071 4]

1 minute ago, EPV said:

They can’t exactly put all of that text into one pop up box can they 

Then dont put a box there at all, simples

[EPV 631]

8 minutes ago, ak071 said:

Then dont put a box there at all, simples

But when your biggest customers (franchises and supermarkets) ALWAYS price run of the mill stuff as keenly as they can, making money from up selling, why wouldn’t they want that shouted about? 

[Tony F 38]

2 hours ago, trade vet said:

I think most dealers agree with you that price markers are unfair and inaccurate.AT reps will be getting it in the neck every day.I think they will be gone by the autumn because dealers en mass will be reducing their AT listings.Its a PLC and this will show through in their results and could effect the share price.

I imagine a lot of dealers (myself included) waited and then cancelled autotrader on the day double stock offer expired in January. We will soon see if the numbers of cars for sale on AT drop dramatically after this weekend which will be after the 30 notice period. Although the car numbers for sale have already dropped from around 495k to 450k during Jan. I think that a fair amount of dealers will have signed up for the 2 months of half price stock offer on 24th Jan, and may have intentions of handing in their 30 day cancellation notice once this offer expires in March. We'll see how the numbers of cars for sale looks in the last week of April, which will at least give us an indication whether everyone is voting with their feet. As you said TV, they only care about the share price and the only language they understand is pounds and pence. Unfortunately not everyone is in a position to cancel AT, as many many business have sprung up the past 10 years who's complete business model pretty much relies on advertising with AT.

[sparky 274]

13 hours ago, beckly car sales said:

i agree to that they have properly fucked me. I started last summer after being out the game 35 years and they led me up the garden path telling me i was buying wrong cars etc take this desirability app and you'll do okay so i clear my stock and buy sought after cars in my area in then they bring in the indicators.Fucking spot on AT

I'm getting the feeling that AT and the car supermarkets are the same animal

Did they put a gun to your head Narcos style when they did this?

I'm sorry you seem to be struggling with the job I really am, but this attitude is everything that is wrong with modern society. FFS, take some responsibility for you own actions, man the fuck up and start to row your own canoe.

 

Jeez, just when you think you've read it all.

[JA Trader 58]

1 hour ago, sparky said:

Did they put a gun to your head Narcos style when they did this?

I'm sorry you seem to be struggling with the job I really am, but this attitude is everything that is wrong with modern society. FFS, take some responsibility for you own actions, man the fuck up and start to row your own canoe.

 

Jeez, just when you think you've read it all.

LIKE

[beckly car sales 1]

18 minutes ago, JA Trader said:

LIKE

what on earth are you on about? Its a comment not a fucking sympathy plea do me a favour and don't assume shit about me, or more to the point read the conversation back and try and be clever in your next comment

[Mojo121 229]

23 minutes ago, beckly car sales said:

what on earth are you on about? Its a comment not a fucking sympathy plea do me a favour and don't assume shit about me, or more to the point read the conversation back and try and be clever in your next comment

chill out Becky

[XFS 70]

2 hours ago, sparky said:

Did they put a gun to your head Narcos style when they did this?

I'm sorry you seem to be struggling with the job I really am, but this attitude is everything that is wrong with modern society. FFS, take some responsibility for you own actions, man the fuck up and start to row your own canoe.

 

Jeez, just when you think you've read it all.

I understand your frustration, I really do but I would like to make 3 points.

1. There is absolutely no basis for legal action against autotrader. None whatsoever. an expansive excersize in futility at best. If you found a lawyer opportunistic enough to take it up...and it would be oppertunistic, because they would KNOW there was no chance of success...in court when the judge stopped laughing he/she would find in favour of autotrader and award costs against the plaintiffs without a doubt.

2. Autotrader do not care about you, me or most on these forums. They don't need to, most of our accounts are four figures monthly. Can you imagine the monthly spend for big franchises and supermarkets? These are the clients Autotrader are interested in and will take notice off.  The price markers will suit them as it gives the impression that the cars they sell are low priced and good value. 

3. We are all big boys and girls here, so are responsible for our own destinies. We are under no obligation to use Autotrader or any other platform. If we do its on their terms and conditions (within the law obviously) the same as when a customer buys a car from me, its on my terms (within the law obviously) and I can ask any price I choose.

[SC Derby 259]

52 minutes ago, Mojo121 said:

chill out Becky

I keep reading it as Becky but its Beckly haha

Edited February 19, 2020 by SC Derby

[JA Trader 58]

1 hour ago, beckly car sales said:

what on earth are you on about? Its a comment not a fucking sympathy plea do me a favour and don't assume shit about me, or more to the point read the conversation back and try and be clever in your next comment

My Like button dosent work so to show appreciation to a fellow members post i replied with the word LIKE.

No one is forcing you to use auto trader. No one is holding a gun to your head and making you pay there bill or use there markers. Dont like it them simply leave.

Also haven't assumed anything about you. If i had i probably would of commented something along the lines off: "I dont feel you are mentally stable enough to do this job if your seriously considering legal action over some price markers" . What do you do when a billy wants to return a car god i would hate to be one of your customers.

I have never once tried to be clever on here i am a mere goldfish in an ocean  but i also dont take to the internet to cry about a service provider and threaten legal action. I would like to quote sparky again here " Did they put a gun to your head Narcos style when they did this? "

 

 

[beckly car sales 1]

3 minutes ago, JA Trader said:

My Like button dosent work so to show appreciation to a fellow members post i replied with the word LIKE.

No one is forcing you to use auto trader. No one is holding a gun to your head and making you pay there bill or use there markers. Dont like it them simply leave.

Also haven't assumed anything about you. If i had i probably would of commented something along the lines off: "I dont feel you are mentally stable enough to do this job if your seriously considering legal action over some price markers" . What do you do when a billy wants to return a car god i would hate to be one of your customers.

I have never once tried to be clever on here i am a mere goldfish in an ocean  but i also dont take to the internet to cry about a service provider and threaten legal action. I would like to quote sparky again here " Did they put a gun to your head Narcos style when they did this? "

 

 

my reply was actually for sparky