TRADING FROM HOME

[Max Branning 149]

I am currently looking at buying a new house which has a large piece of land/garden with it. The House sits back around 100ft from the road and part of the large garden is situated at the side of the house with access down a long drive to it. 

Now i operate from premises currently but the potential to sell cars from this property is amazing. My question is to anyone who has experience of LEGITIMATELY trading from home. What would be the usual process of getting permissions etc and any pitfalls to avoid here.

Just weighing up the pros and cons at the min.

[Phil H 124]

it's perfectly legal to sell from home as long as you have no signage on the house, no advertising price boards in the cars, no alterations are made to the premises to accommodate the business and no preparation work is carried out on the premises.. If you want to do all of the above you must apply for planning for retail and repairs if you do your own work and if nobody objects you can do it all legally, you will pay business rates on the parts you use for business and normal rates for the rest. If you want to service cars make sure you get a waste oil licence and if you valet them the council normally insist on some sort of treatment process/tanks for your waste water. Also would need to pay for a separate waste collection service as I you're caught putting trade waste in your domestic bin you could get done for fly tipping.

[Max Branning 149]

Thanks Phil for this.

Do you operate from home yourself?

Just to clarify:

If i have no signage, no for sale boards, do all repairs and valeting off site then i do not need any permissions at all and can just get on with it -  or am i missing something?

 

 

[umesh 336]

Personally I'd avoid working from home - I feel you need to have a break away , I wouldn't like customers coming to my home - Home is home & Business is business, especially if you have an issue with a car and they turn up at your home middle of the night demanding ! 

There are both pros and cons guess you have to decide what you really want ! good luck 

[Max Branning 149]

Umesh i agree in some ways but the property i am looking at has a large side plot which could be kept seperate from the house in a way. Also it sits around 100ft back from the road behind 8 ft gates so no one can just come and knock at the door.

The biggest pro for me is saving around £1200 per month in rent for my pitch which more than covers the mortgage on the house. The business would have to downsize a bit but i still see it as a no brainer if its possible with permissions etc.

To be honest the way dealers are moaning and groaning lately about stock turnover reducing and margins getting slimmer i can see this being the way forward for many traders who are able to do it.

[Phil H 124]

I have to agree with Yourself and Umesh as I've done both. I currently have a pitch but will be closing it at the end of the month to start a new venture. the thought of trading from home again to keep a few pennies coming in whilst the new venture takes off did cross my mind then I remembered things like answering the door in a towel only to be greeted by the local trading standards officer following up on a complaint made by a customer who had some work done off his own back and wanted me to pay for it, or when the job goes quiet and you can't move for stock, You need understanding neighbours and a partner for that.

My advice would be if you do decide to trade from home make strict boundary's like what's work space / home space, working hours i'e no seven day weeks, late viewing by prior appointment only etc. Make sure you take time out with your family to enjoy and a good work life balance like you do with having a pitch. Home to me is somewhere to spend time with family and loved ones not with strangers who I don't know.  You have to way up the financial savings against getting the home work balance right. 

IMHO Answer this question honestly to yourself and then you'll know if you can keep to the boundary's and make working from home successful.

Sunny summers afternoon, it's been dead all week so you decide to entertain some friends in the garden, the drinks are flowing and you're having a real good laugh enjoying you're home life. The door bell rings, you answer and a man says "sorry to bother you but I tried ringing and couldn't get through I only live down the road so I thought I'd pop round on the off chance that you're in as my cars just packed up and I need one for work tomorrow".

Is your answer I'm sorry but now is not a convenient time if you leave me your address and number and I'll bring it to your house first thing in the morning?

or

Come in which one is it I'll just go and get the keys? 

 

Good Luck with whatever you decide

 

Edited September 18, 2015 by Phil H

[Max Branning 149]

The neighbours wouldnt be an issue as the plot is enclosed. I would work strictly by appointment only if someone turns up and its not convenient i would send them away. Space is no issue. I dont care about people coming back complaining i prepare the cars well and would genuinely make an effort to sort out any problems for them. 

My main worry is with permission, Someone told me that you need planning permission to trade from home legally, i do not want to approach the council unless it is absolutely necessary as once they get involved they can find problems that dont exist. There would be no signs or for sale boards. Repairs would be done offsite. I would be looking to hold probably no more than 10 cars but maybe only 4 or 5 to start and see how it goes from there.

Seems to easy to just be able to do it without some red tape though?

[Phil H 124]

Unless each council has different rules I've done it, had the council round, business rates people etc and the only thing that they complained about was the fact that I had 2 cars that I was stripping to go banger racing in. I explained that they where my hobby and they took it that I was running a scrapyard from home and put an order banning me and any new owner from running a scrapyard at that address but selling cars was perfectly legal as long as I didn't alter the premises in any way to accommodate my business, no signage, no prices in cars and  I didn't carry out any work on them at my house but any outside firm could. When I sold the house I had fun explaining that to the new owners.  

[It's me 615]

ive worked from home,bad purchases get in the way and you can end up playing butterflies moving cars round,worse thing is customers certainly do turn up when they want my record was selling a car at about 11.30 pm on a friday night to a bloke,this was all 25 years ago i would never go back to selling other than one car at a time at home in retirement to help pay for new walking sticks

remember customers will turn up as Phil H says     on a sunday whilst you are in your undercrackers rodgering the wife

 

good luck and lets hope you have a strong marriage 

[Phil H 124]

Max which of the following would you say is swaying you most to trading from home? Rising overheads, depleting margins or the problem of finding decent stock without having to pay the earth for it? 

[Max Branning 149]

Phil i am considering home trading mainly because the property offers excellent potential for it but also weighing up overheads and margins slipping i feel it is the way forward for me, even though i would be downsizing stock levels.

 

[Rory RSC 596]

Going to meet far less resistance to it in a property like the one you have described than trying to do in in a new build cul de sac or such like.

Take a look at Barclay Motor company or BMC car sales in Birmingham area and have a browse at the google images of the site.

[Max Branning 149]

Yes i could see how for most people trading from home is unpractical but with this proposed property the space is great. The cars would not be on view to passers by or neighbours. One thing that does worry me a bit is how the customer may portray you, as in that you dont operate from "premises" so you are not a real trader in their eyes? 

Still weighing up the pros and cons but saving 1200 per month in rent would give me a few nights extra sleep every month hopefully..!

[Ken 10]

Max, I know of 3 dealers who all trade from home. They all do well. I'd go for it!

[Steve92 80]

With a private buyers hat on I would think twice about buying from a private address, if it was a focus sold from a 3 bed house for 10k then I'm not sure I would buy. However if it's a nice detached house with plenty of ground and out buildings wooden barn style selling ferraris and Porsches then it would be acceptable to me.

[j4ck100 12]

I trade from home and think that people trust you more as they know where you live !

Your fly by nighters selling death traps will never do it from their home always from a lock up or a lay by etc. lots of peice of mind with a fixed home address 

[Max Branning 149]

Jack did you have to apply for any sort of planning permission? And what sort of price range are you at?

I am currently trading at £1500 - £4000 holding around 15-20 cars. If i had to reduce stock holding to around 10 cars from home i may look to go a bit more upmarket maybe 5-6k motors with a bit more margin in them. But then again not sure if a 6k buyer would feel safer buying from "premises"

[James Bush 95]

Max, I've traded from home for the last 3 years after giving up a pitch. It was a stop gap at 1st but quickly I realised it was a goer.......no strict set hours (I work by appointment only), not sat in an office on a cold December Saturday afternoon hoping someone may turn up and of course a lot lower overheads.

I was renting a cheap unit to store my cars plus 4 at my home address and went well with no hassle. Around 6 months ago I did what your thinking of doing, saw a house for sale with lots of land and the potential to store all my cars on one site, garden office etc. Before I moved I rang my local council who told me I wouldn't need planning as long as I didn't price any cars or advertise, do any trades on site and basically didn't make it look like a scrap yard but......around 3 months ago I got a visit from the local planning who after spending 2 minutes with me told me I had to apply for "change of use". I questioned why and they didn't really give an answer, a few letters back and forth without them answering any of my issues and then around a month ago a letter informing me of magistrates court action unless I applied. They assured me if what I'm doing is going to continue it's only a formality as its a large plot, off a main road, nearest neighbours are over 700 metres away and separated by large trees and fields but its the local planning office and I fall under quite a snobby little village rather than the town who look like they reject everything - even a sky dish on cottage because it looked out of character - so I'm shitting it!! If they reject it, it means quite a big issue and of course planning takes forever so I'm just trying to ignore it and hoping for the best.

So my advise would be to contact the council before taking it any further, get it in writing etc.

BTW - I stock around 10-15 cars priced form £2000 - £8000

 

[Max Branning 149]

James thanks for this

This is exactly the sort of thing that was worrying me, always red tape in this country..

What do they mean exactly by change of use? change from residential to commercial? I would assume this may cause a problem with a mortgage as well if you have one?

[sparky 274]

 I know a couple of dealers who have made similar moves  and are doing fine.

The savings you talk about are huge , especially in the current climate. I bought my pitch 6 years ago and had a rates and mortgage bill of £2000 per month. At the time that was ok as firstly it was only £500 per month more than what I was renting for and  secondly and the job was easier, a lot easier IMO. 3 or 4 few years ago I started to get twitchy about the job and started paying lumps of my mortgage, and whilst my stock has taken a hit, my mortgage and rates bill is under £500 per month and that's covered by a sub let.

I can't tell you how much of a weight off my mind it is to have one of the two major overheads  reduced significantly (if only the other one could be reduced) and that for me far outweighs the reduction in stock.

And it's for that  and that reason alone, that I'm in. Go for it, just make sure you buy yourself a 'do not disturb' sign for Sunday mornings!

[James Bush 95]

Hi, yep change of use from residential to commercial. As long as there is no pricing, advertising and everything is via appointment its only needed as car storage apparently? And you only need to apply for change of use on the bit of land you'll be using. With myself I've applied for change of use for about a 1/3 of my driveway so I'll just have to see how it goes. I can't honestly see how it can be rejected but you never know??? Its a very large plot, surrounded by fields, my only neighbours are sheep and cows, on a main road and the cars aren't seen by passers by because of a wall and trees.

[sparky 274]

Max, I've traded from home for the last 3 years after giving up a pitch. It was a stop gap at 1st but quickly I realised it was a goer.......no strict set hours (I work by appointment only), not sat in an office on a cold December Saturday afternoon hoping someone may turn up and of course a lot lower overheads.

I was renting a cheap unit to store my cars plus 4 at my home address and went well with no hassle. Around 6 months ago I did what your thinking of doing, saw a house for sale with lots of land and the potential to store all my cars on one site, garden office etc. Before I moved I rang my local council who told me I wouldn't need planning as long as I didn't price any cars or advertise, do any trades on site and basically didn't make it look like a scrap yard but......around 3 months ago I got a visit from the local planning who after spending 2 minutes with me told me I had to apply for "change of use". I questioned why and they didn't really give an answer, a few letters back and forth without them answering any of my issues and then around a month ago a letter informing me of magistrates court action unless I applied. They assured me if what I'm doing is going to continue it's only a formality as its a large plot, off a main road, nearest neighbours are over 700 metres away and separated by large trees and fields but its the local planning office and I fall under quite a snobby little village rather than the town who look like they reject everything - even a sky dish on cottage because it looked out of character - so I'm shitting it!! If they reject it, it means quite a big issue and of course planning takes forever so I'm just trying to ignore it and hoping for the best.

So my advise would be to contact the council before taking it any further, get it in writing etc.

BTW - I stock around 10-15 cars priced form £2000 - £8000

 

Start selling electric cars, I'm sure they will love you

Seriously, hope it goes in your favour.

[Max Branning 149]

Hi, yep change of use from residential to commercial. As long as there is no pricing, advertising and everything is via appointment its only needed as car storage apparently? And you only need to apply for change of use on the bit of land you'll be using. With myself I've applied for change of use for about a 1/3 of my driveway so I'll just have to see how it goes. I can't honestly see how it can be rejected but you never know??? Its a very large plot, surrounded by fields, my only neighbours are sheep and cows, on a main road and the cars aren't seen by passers by because of a wall and trees.

James your set up sounds exactly like the one im looking at. If you do go ahead and get change of use how will this affect your mortgage on the property, i cant see many lenders being happy with this? Also the home insurance would need to change?

[James Bush 95]

My mortgage company are fully aware I work from home and didn't see it as an issue, and also my home insurance is aware of my business - this was a bit more work but found most of them were quite happy to quote it was just finding a cheap enough quote.

Sparky I used to sell "alternative fuel" cars - hybrid, electric (well it was only the GWizz then) and LPG and if you think you get more than your fare share of problems with just petrol and diesel start selling them and the rest looks a breeze - I am going back 5 or 6 years though, have things improved? I doubt it?

[Steve92 80]

Electric cars .... Renault Zoe, £75 deposit, £130 a month over 2 years .... Why would you want to buy it when leasing is so cheap.