Recovery of a vehicle under the Consumer Rights Act

[Arfur Dealy 823]

FYI Absolute clarity.....

http://www.lawgistics.co.uk/read-news/1395#sthash.VgJHOGCL.SU46ZVvU.dpbs

Recovery of a vehicle under the Consumer Rights Act 2015

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 states “the trader must bear any reasonable costs of returning them, other than any costs incurred by the consumer in returning the goods in person to the place where the consumer took physical possession of them” therefore, if the vehicle is driveable then you can request that the consumer brings the vehicle back to your premises.

But, if the vehicle cannot be driven then “reasonable costs” of recovering the vehicle should be incurred by yourself.  This obviously can be costly. 

If you do not have repair facilities then it may be easier for both parties to have the vehicle diagnosed/repaired at a local VAT registered independent garage near them. 
 

However, If your sales invoice states it is the consumers responsibility to return the vehicle to the trader in the event they wish to exercise their statutory rights, this becomes an express clause of the agreement. 

 

Lawgistics Members can get advice on all consumer related issues from the legal team, we also sell a full range of stationery to help your business be legally compliant.

[Dave2302 387]

2 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

However, If your sales invoice states it is the consumers responsibility to return the vehicle to the trader in the event they wish to exercise their statutory rights, this becomes an express clause of the agreement. 

/\ /\ /\ like

Exactly, glad to see that hasn't changed since I sold up the Gearbox firm, paperwork must always state that any Warranty is strictly RTB, and the Billy must sign to accept this and any other T&C's

[Area 51 33]

49 minutes ago, Dave2302 said:

/\ /\ /\ like

Exactly, glad to see that hasn't changed since I sold up the Gearbox firm, paperwork must always state that any Warranty is strictly RTB, and the Billy must sign to accept this and any other T&C's

this

[Linctrader 16]

1 hour ago, Arfur Dealy said:

 

 

However, If your sales invoice states it is the consumers responsibility to return the vehicle to the trader in the event they wish to exercise their statutory rights, this becomes an express clause of the agreement. 

 

Its as clear cut as it needs to be really. 

Then any recovery done is offered and should be viewed as good will on our part if and when we choose to exercise that option.

[EPV 631]

I'm not convinced about this.

If the law states that we're responsible for reasonable costs of getting the vehicle back then I can't see how we can be considered "above the law" and start superseding the law with our own terms. I wouldn't fancy testing that out, to be honest.

[Dave2302 387]

1 hour ago, Linctrader said:

Then any recovery done is offered and should be viewed as good will on our part if and when we choose to exercise that option.

Absolutely /\ /\ /\ 

But ............... If you do do a freebie recovery then you should make it quite clear that it is a one off goodwill gesture ...............

Quite frankly I'm fucked if I would do that, what kind of cheap skate twunt doesn't have RAC , Green Flag, AA etc Recovery plan these days anyways

21 minutes ago, EPV said:

I can't see how we can be considered "above the law" and start superseding the law with our own terms

Any business in the UK can set it's own terms and conditions, and provided this is worded correctly and the purchaser has signed it to say they agree to the T&C's, then the said purchaser is bound by those terms, that is what "express clause of the agreement" means in plain Engleesh

HTH,

Edited March 21, 2019 by Dave2302

[EPV 631]

1 minute ago, Dave2302 said:

Absolutely /\ /\ /\ 

Any business in the UK can set it's own terms and conditions, and provided this is worded correctly and the purchaser has signed it to say they agree to the T&C's, then the said purchaser is bound by those terms, that is what "express clause of the agreement" means in plain Engleesh

HTH,

Ok, well I have zero experience of this so I can't really form a strong opinion! I'd say looking at it from the "end of the line" perspective, i.e. court, if a judge was to interpret the law as read, it is pretty clear we're in the chair for cost of recovery back to us. It's not something I personally would be willing to test in court! Hopefully I won't have to

[Dave2302 387]

Just now, EPV said:

Ok, well I have zero experience of this so I can't really form a strong opinion! I'd say looking at it from the "end of the line" perspective, i.e. court, if a judge was to interpret the law as read, it is pretty clear we're in the chair for cost of recovery back to us. It's not something I personally would be willing to test in court! Hopefully I won't have to

No !! Absolutely not !!

The Judge will know fine well that the "Express Clause" negates the CRA, as long as Billy has signed it !!

You would be onto a right winner if said judge fucked up and you appealed !! ......................

Ask a Brief if you don't believe me 

[justina3 518]

15 minutes ago, Dave2302 said:

Absolutely /\ /\ /\ 

But ............... If you do do a freebie recovery then you should make it quite clear that it is a one off goodwill gesture ...............

Quite frankly I'm fucked if I would do that, what kind of cheap skate twunt doesn't have RAC , Green Flag, AA etc Recovery plan these days anyways

Any business in the UK can set it's own terms and conditions, and provided this is worded correctly and the purchaser has signed it to say they agree to the T&C's, then the said purchaser is bound by those terms, that is what "express clause of the agreement" means in plain Engleesh

HTH,

So just to clarify your point can I therefore add to my terms and conditions “should I see fit all the terms and conditions set out above and null and void” and as long as billy has signed printed in agreement it is legally binding. 

ps i know the answer.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

14 minutes ago, EPV said:

Ok, well I have zero experience of this so I can't really form a strong opinion! I'd say looking at it from the "end of the line" perspective, i.e. court, if a judge was to interpret the law as read, it is pretty clear we're in the chair for cost of recovery back to us. It's not something I personally would be willing to test in court! Hopefully I won't have to

James, look at it this way......

If the stereo doesn't work, then you can write it on the purchase receipt stating the stereo doesn't work and the customers signs to accept. The CRA states cars must be for purpose, however, if the engine is missing and the invoice states this and the customer agrees then they are buying a car without an engine. If you state on the purchase receipt the car must be returned in the event of a statutory claim the customer has agreed they must abide by the contract. You are not dissolving their rights, you are simply clarifying the terms of the contract. HTH

[Dave2302 387]

21 minutes ago, justina3 said:

ps i know the answer.

So do I, but it wouldn't be worded anything like that ................ 

21 minutes ago, justina3 said:

“should I see fit all the terms and conditions set out above and null and void”

If you want to absolve yourself of almost everything it would go more like "This Vehicle is sold strictly on a Spares or Repairs basis therefore ...................................................................... "

And I'll let you pay Lawgistics / your brief for the rest of it

13 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

you are simply clarifying the terms of the contract.

/\ /\ /\ This

Edited March 21, 2019 by Dave2302

[justina3 518]

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this subject and move on life is to short, the letter of the law has been tightened up considerably over the last few years the CRA2015 was everyone’s hope to clarify basic questions being asked of the old consumer rights act from the dark ages.

Sadly it didn’t go no where near far enough and still left many grey areas and as many misinterpretations as the old rules it replaced.

 

And I have no need for lawgistics services however good they are, thankfully having a solicitor in the family takes care off all my many needs.

 

 

[trade vet 702]

Anyone heard of the ‘Unfair Contract Terms Act’ !

[have a word with the wife 299]

1 hour ago, trade vet said:

Anyone heard of the ‘Unfair Contract Terms Act’ !

yes, its quite simple, and quoted in many trading standards "help" forms .

justina, its quite simple , on the sales invoice simply state who to contact in the first instance eg =

jo bloggs car sales

078965432

to be contacted in any instance.

they sign that they have agreed to the terms on the invoice, obviously not taking away there rights, thats a unfair contract, i tell them straight, READ, DIGEST, SIGN, it states on my invoice if your not happy with the conditions, do not sign, do not buy the vehicle

[Arfur Dealy 823]

1 hour ago, trade vet said:

Anyone heard of the ‘Unfair Contract Terms Act’ !

Agreed, but if you go to buy a PC World and by a computer and I’ll develops a problem you have to personally take it back to them, if you go to John Lewis and buy a set of knives and one develops  problem it’s your responsibility to return it.

The law is slightly different with cars, but what you are saying isn’t unfair trading. 

The difference is you are adding an “express clause” to the agreement which both parties are contracted to abide. It isn’t unfair. 

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Arfur Dealy

[trade vet 702]

6 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Agreed, but if you go to buy a PC World and by a computer and I’ll develops a problem you have to personally take it back to them, if you go to John Lewis and buy a set of knives and one develops  problem it’s your responsibility to return it.

The law is slightly different with cars, but what you are saying isn’t unfair trading. 

 

Yes AD I agree,just drawing peoples attention to it.

[Area 51 33]

Not really sure why any fair and reasonable trader, as seems to be represent here on the forum, would even get caught up in any "unfair contracts act" disputes..

So long as the CRA is amended/added too in a fair a reasonable way, the vehicle is as you would like it yourself and prep'd correctly.. Where is the issue..?

To me this only starts when you get some smart arse wanting to create their own rules and laws.. and not abide by those a trader is governed by. and/or take the p*ss..

Dont like the T&C's dont buy it... simples. As mentioned above

 

[Rory RSC 596]

You want to buy my car from me and receive my assistance and back up?

i am happy to provide  this you must return the car to me. 

I think it’s fair.

[Billy Joe Public 2]

On this page there is a draft consultation document “Car traders and consumer law” which covers the return of a rejected vehicle at page 36 (9.18).

HTH

Edited March 21, 2019 by Billy Joe Public

[Dave2302 387]

5 hours ago, Billy Joe Public said:

On this page there is a draft consultation document “Car traders and consumer law” which covers the return of a rejected vehicle at page 36 (9.18).

HTH

I give up with this .................

A draft consultation document lol, there are millions out there, mostly written by tree hugging cretins with a beef about all kinds of subjects, a draft consultation is not law, it is a representation of the views of the author !! 

Anyways, that section covers rejection due to a major fault.

What the hell does that have to do with recovering a Car to repair a minor fault !!

Edited March 22, 2019 by Dave2302

[Billy Joe Public 2]

7 hours ago, Dave2302 said:

What the hell does that have to do with recovering a Car to repair a minor fault !!

My bad.  Page 38 (9.24):

When a consumer is pursuing a repair or replacement remedy to a breach of CRA, a dealer must “bear any necessary costs incurred” in carrying out the remedy. This would include the cost of returning the vehicle to the garage. Note that the provision excluding the cost of returning a car to the garage in the event of rejection (see paragraph 9.18 above) does NOT apply where a repair or replacement is being sought. Instead the remedy must be supplied “free of charge”.

7 hours ago, Dave2302 said:

I give up with this .................

A draft consultation document lol, there are millions out there, mostly written by tree hugging cretins with a beef about all kinds of subjects, a draft consultation is not law, it is a representation of the views of the author !!

True, it’s not the law but it’s from a website backed by Trading Standards and the Government and is intended to provide guidance to businesses and individuals around (in this caes) the interpretation of the CRA 2015.
 

[David Horgan 564]

This is basically the trouble with the modern society isn't it .

90% of people are aggressive from word go when a fault occurs . Lets google the latest pillock that writes online about a subject he doesn't even know about and then spout that clap trap in an aggressive manner because my 70,000 mile  £2,000 car has got an EML light on . 

1 ;I know my rights , its your fault , you must have known it was faulty , I can reject it , It was there from when i collected it . I want it fixing free . NOW , 

Instead of ring ring 

2; Hello my names !!!!! you know the !!!!!! I bought last week its developed an EML light and just thought if I popped in you might look at it for me please . 

 

Your buying a USED car that's been round the world Three times and  has multiple people driving it , hundreds of moving parts that DO wear . Its NOT new so respect it and don't expect a new one .

When / If something does go wrong its because cars DO wear out on a variable time span till we throw them away . 

Plus its always better to be polite at first and its probably going to get any faults done so much quicker . 

 

This was based on real life last week , Lad buys a Corsa , two weeks later EML comes on , its needed a Lamba probe when we plugged it in , When its in stock I'll ring you I said . OK lad goes thanks . Left him message NEXT day , Hi Parts in , you ok to pop in and we will fit while you wait . 

He didn't get the message , didn't open his messages .

Two days later dads on phone threatening to bring it down and leave it here , I told him to listen to his sons messages and wind his neck in .

Son came down , said dad was a horrible aggressive lunatic that never gets anything done because of his attitude . 

We fitted his Lamba and he was off happy without getting worked up ., Mum phoned me to apologise about husbands aggressive manner 

So billy joe public calm down and be nice , stop reading tripe online and you may well live a long and happy life getting small and large problems that do come to haunt everyone at times fixed in a timely professional manner . 

But do also remember we can tell when YOU are not telling us the full whole truth and nothing but the truth . 

 

 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

8 minutes ago, David Horgan said:

This is basically the trouble with the modern society isn't it .

90% of people are aggressive from word go when a fault occurs . Lets google the latest pillock that writes online about a subject he doesn't even know about and then spout that clap trap in an aggressive manner because my 70,000 mile  £2,000 car has got an EML light on . 

1 ;I know my rights , its your fault , you must have known it was faulty , I can reject it , It was there from when i collected it . I want it fixing free . NOW , 

Instead of ring ring 

2; Hello my names !!!!! you know the !!!!!! I bought last week its developed an EML light and just thought if I popped in you might look at it for me please . 

 

Your buying a USED car that's been round the world Three times and  has multiple people driving it , hundreds of moving parts that DO wear . Its NOT new so respect it and don't expect a new one .

When / If something does go wrong its because cars DO wear out on a variable time span till we throw them away . 

Plus its always better to be polite at first and its probably going to get any faults done so much quicker . 

 

This was based on real life last week , Lad buys a Corsa , two weeks later EML comes on , its needed a Lamba probe when we plugged it in , When its in stock I'll ring you I said . OK lad goes thanks . Left him message NEXT day , Hi Parts in , you ok to pop in and we will fit while you wait . 

He didn't get the message , didn't open his messages .

Two days later dads on phone threatening to bring it down and leave it here , I told him to listen to his sons messages and wind his neck in .

Son came down , said dad was a horrible aggressive lunatic that never gets anything done because of his attitude . 

We fitted his Lamba and he was off happy without getting worked up ., Mum phoned me to apologise about husbands aggressive manner 

So billy joe public calm down and be nice , stop reading tripe online and you may well live a long and happy life getting small and large problems that do come to haunt everyone at times fixed in a timely professional manner . 

But do also remember we can tell when YOU are not telling us the full whole truth and nothing but the truth . 

 

 

Well said David. 

[Dave2302 387]

/\ /\ /\ + 1 David ................

Sooooo true.

[Rory RSC 596]

Fantastic post Dave Horgan