Refunding customer

[Arfur Dealy 823]

It all smells very rotten to me. He purchased the car knowing full well it required repair and was faulty. 

[Lucas 9]

Should we have a faulty statement or something in writing to have the customer to sign it before handover the car? So that we can have the evidence to protect ourselves.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Lucas

[Mark101 536]

7 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Should we have a faulty statement or something in writing to have the customer to sign it before handover the car? So that we can have the evidence to protect ourselves.

Yes - it's the PDI sheet

List all faults and/or damages under the comments section which the customer signs

[Tony911 79]

1 hour ago, Arfur Dealy said:

It all smells very rotten to me. He purchased the car knowing full well it required repair and was faulty. 

So what would be the best option here as really want this over and done with. 

[trade vet 702]

2 hours ago, Tony911 said:

Would the judge not look at the fact we have been to collect the car but due to the garage loosing the keys and telling us it wont drive as gearbox is knackered hence we want a inspection of the car to make sure there is no other faults or missing parts and also if the key is original or a different key with new ecu and locks? 

You would hope so.However the judge might be more interested in points of law.If he bothers to look at Trading Standards guide to used car dealerships,that may not help your defence.

[Tony911 79]

27 minutes ago, trade vet said:

You would hope so.However the judge might be more interested in points of law.If he bothers to look at Trading Standards guide to used car dealerships,that may not help your defence.

Yes but what else can we do? We have been to collect the car with no luck due to lost keys and gearbox fault. We have still said bring the car back and was inspected if al is well you can have the money back. Customer and garage saying we are not allowed to start the car on delivery. What else can we do? Dont want a car back with no engine gearbox or key. Might as well say here is your money just keep the car and send us a packet of cheese and onion walkers

[NOACROSS 414]

Lawgistics?

[Tony911 79]

5 minutes ago, NOACROSS said:

Lawgistics?

No, should we be? 

[James01 21]

3 hours ago, Tony911 said:

Would the judge not look at the fact we have been to collect the car but due to the garage loosing the keys and telling us it wont drive as gearbox is knackered hence we want a inspection of the car to make sure there is no other faults or missing parts and also if the key is original or a different key with new ecu and locks? 

Yes the judges are not stupid, they can tell a chancer when they see one. 

I would take it all the way, worst case scenario you have to refund him but I very much doubt you will have to refund the whole amount if it came to it as it is clear the customers garage which he appointed to do the repairs have been negligent. 

Also you are fully entitled to carry out an indipendant inspection. The customer refusing you to do so only works against them as you are following the correct process. 

[Tony911 79]

Just to add customer did say he would except £1500 and remaining £500 after inspection which we refused. Would that work in his favor? 

[Jack Regan 116]

He knew it had a fault and purchased it with fault ..... fook him .

[Lucas 9]

Do you have his signed statement or PDI sheet on hand to show that he accepted the faulty existed before the purchase? 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Lucas

[Tony911 79]

3 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Do you have his signed statement or PDI sheet on hand to show that he accepted the faulty existed before the purchase? 

Only via text message. Not really concerned about that any more, main point is now we have been to collect the car with no result as garage lost key they said would have the car returned at their cost but upon arrival we cant start it or get it inspected and we have rejected this as how do we know if there is any key with the car or more issues then stated ie missing parts or unauthorised repairs

[trade vet 702]

1 hour ago, Tony911 said:

Yes but what else can we do? We have been to collect the car with no luck due to lost keys and gearbox fault. We have still said bring the car back and was inspected if al is well you can have the money back. Customer and garage saying we are not allowed to start the car on delivery. What else can we do? Dont want a car back with no engine gearbox or key. Might as well say here is your money just keep the car and send us a packet of cheese and onion walkers

That is all part of your defence.Also how much did the abortive trip to collect/inspect it cost you prior to the struck out hearing.

[NOACROSS 414]

30 minutes ago, Tony911 said:

No, should we be? 

Well worth it.

[Tony911 79]

20 minutes ago, trade vet said:

That is all part of your defence.Also how much did the abortive trip to collect/inspect it cost you prior to the struck out hearing.

Cost £500 as we took a mechanic with his diagnostic tools

19 minutes ago, NOACROSS said:

Well worth it.

Who and where to we join? 

[stockedup! 63]

17 hours ago, Tony911 said:

Hi, new here really need some advice on a used car we sold to a customer.

Sorry but it will take a while so please take in all information and give us some advice as this is the first time in 10 years of trading to come across a situation like this.

We got a mercedes ml270 as a trade in was advertised as no warranty and told the customer before he left deposit there was a fault with the glow plug light staying on for a while but starts and drives as it should, on his 6 hour return journey home the car broke down due to accelerator pedal sensor, had aa come out to his location and got it going for him and managed to get the car back home. Few days later get a call saying glow plugs are snapped in the head and he wants a full refund. We advised him we could only be held responsible for the accelerator pedal issue as he was fully aware there was a problem with glow plugs and we had not inspected it as that is our policy on part exchange stock and clearly advertised. Long story short as this continued for a while and he filed a small claim against us, few weeks before court we bit the bullet and decided to go collect the car and pay the full refund of the car, asked the customer few days before our arrival if the car starts and he told us the garage it is at have started it with a booster pack.

On our arrival we are told the garage has lost the key and there isn't another and the garage owner said we couldn't drive the car either because it was stuck in 1st gear being a automatic but there has never been any mention of gearbox issues in the past from customer or the garages report. Garage advised they would return car at their cost and have a new key made from dealers.

Here is the interesting part customer says he will contact the courts next day and have case put on hold until this matter is resolved, little to our knowledge the following day we recieved a letter from the courts stating customer had not paid the hearing fees and his cas was struck out and a couple of weeks later another letter stating his application to reinstate the case was not granted and the case is struck out and will need to start all over again. We never told the customer we had received this information as we would settle it as agreed, couple of weeks later advised by customer garage had got in to the car and reassured us a new key would arrive next week as garage had 100% ordered it from main dealers, a month later customer comtacts us saying they will deliver the car next week and we advised him that we want a inspection carried out on the car as we are worried about the gearbox issue your garage told us about just to make sure no parts have been removed and if all is well money will be transferred asap. Upon hearing this customer got very aggressive and saying we are not allowed to start the car it will be unloaded once monies have been paid. We have refused this and now he is saying he will be putting in a new case. Now do we have the right to have the car inspected surely you would think we are allowed to start the bloody thing, how do we even know if there is a key for the car. ANY HELP ON THIS MATTER. THANKS 

Am I missing something here? 

Tony you are a professional car dealer who has been at the business for 10 years and you are advertising a vehicle with no warranty and admitting that you don't check part exchange vehicles as policy...….why not? 

You are fully allowed to sell vehicles with faults(Predisclosure), I do it all the time on older cars but I put a fresh MOT on them(Presumably you don't)and make sure all your paperwork is in order regarding a PDI sheets etc. You are leaving yourself wide open here mate, if a punter has a serious accident in a vehicle you have sold and you haven't provided due diligence you are fooked, is someone dies then you would probably face a manslaughter charge.

I appreciate that you might have a bit of a twat on your hands here and the garage hasn't helped the situation either with the keys but it isn't worth risking IMO.

[NOACROSS 414]

http://www.lawgistics.co.uk/#sthash.WrJ0sJBD.dpbs

[Tony911 79]

16 minutes ago, stockedup! said:

Am I missing something here? 

Tony you are a professional car dealer who has been at the business for 10 years and you are advertising a vehicle with no warranty and admitting that you don't check part exchange vehicles as policy...….why not? 

You are fully allowed to sell vehicles with faults(Predisclosure), I do it all the time on older cars but I put a fresh MOT on them(Presumably you don't)and make sure all your paperwork is in order regarding a PDI sheets etc. You are leaving yourself wide open here mate, if a punter has a serious accident in a vehicle you have sold and you haven't provided due diligence you are fooked, is someone dies then you would probably face a manslaughter charge.

I appreciate that you might have a bit of a twat on your hands here and the garage hasn't helped the situation either with the keys but it isn't worth risking IMO.

Appreciate the advice about been road legal but now we just advertise all part exchange stock as spares or repairs or export only. In this case the car had 11 months mot and it was priced £1000 under book value with extras including chrome bull bars side steps and even a private number which was worth at least £300

Edited December 20, 2018 by Tony911

[stockedup! 63]

4 minutes ago, Tony911 said:

Appreciate the advice about been road legal but now we just advertise all part exchange stock as spares or repairs or export only. In this case the car had 11 months mot and it was priced £1000 under book value with extras including chrome bull bars side steps and even a private number which was worth at least £300

If it had 4 months MOT would you have tested it?

[Tony911 79]

6 minutes ago, stockedup! said:

If it had 4 months MOT would you have tested it?

Most likely not, but we will take your advice on board, like i sai all part exchange stock is sold as spares or repairs or export only. This way we cant have any issues as we don't allow test drive only allowed to trailer away 

[andymc1973 199]

49 minutes ago, Tony911 said:

Appreciate the advice about been road legal but now we just advertise all part exchange stock as spares or repairs or export only. In this case the car had 11 months mot and it was priced £1000 under book value with extras including chrome bull bars side steps and even a private number which was worth at least £300

extras mean nothing or the price

punters are awful when they thing they may lose money

[stockedup! 63]

1 hour ago, Tony911 said:

Most likely not, but we will take your advice on board, like i sai all part exchange stock is sold as spares or repairs or export only. This way we cant have any issues as we don't allow test drive only allowed to trailer away 

Sorry, I thought the ML broke down on the drive home?

[Arfur Dealy 823]

1 hour ago, Tony911 said:

Appreciate the advice about been road legal but now we just advertise all part exchange stock as spares or repairs or export only. In this case the car had 11 months mot and it was priced £1000 under book value with extras including chrome bull bars side steps and even a private number which was worth at least £300

You are digging yourself a grave, did you advertsie it with a current MOT ?  Or did you describe it as unroadworthy, sell it on an unroadworthy invoice and ensure the vehicle was trailored away ??

This is all very muddy......

[Tony911 79]

That vehicle was sold with no warranty as stated in advert he broke down due to a faulty accelerator pedal which we tried to rectify. Now all part exchange stock is sold as spares or repairs or export only. Dont get confused. Now with all the lies that are coming out how do we know there garage did not snap the glow plugs? We have been to collect the car with no result they offered to bring car back but we can't start it or inspect the car this is where we have disagreed as we are not happy with what has been told to us.