Sending part exchanges to the block?

[AutoJacob 34]

Evening,

I'm wondering what's everyone's opinions on the rough / faulty part exchanges? Up until now I have sold them on a trade sale only basis, no warranty, no returns. Recently we've had more and more headaches from complaints and people being unrealistic for the peanuts they are paying so today I woke up and thought I'm going to enter the 3 part exchanges we have left and just set the reserve as our cost price and see what happens.

03 zafira, nice mileage 91K, needs a good clean sold provisional £225, reserve £250 but bear in mind these bangers normally make £600 at BCA.

03 Sport KA Convertible mint condition in Red, nice mileage 70K, valeted and a nice drive £375, reserve was £250.

06 Astra 1.8 SRI, 100K mileage, 12 Months MOT bit rusty looks like it's been living under the sea with sponge bob for a few years but still OK nothing major, reserve £600, £400 sold provisional.. again these normally make £700 - £800 at BCA with rusty arches and sills like normal.

Let me know you're stories and how it works for you.

As always any help is appreciated

 

[Dealer 54]

Which auction do you send them to

[EPV 631]

How have you ended up with old scrap like that? I’d be offering £150 for each of those and cubing them. 

[Beautiful South Martin 24]

If dross write them back to a £100 when you do the deal and then block them.....Punters who buy cheapies are worse than £3-4k punters, they think you are their own foc personal repair centre for 2 months...Not worth the grief for a small amount of profit!

[BHM 994]

25 minutes ago, Beautiful South Martin said:

If dross write them back to a £100 when you do the deal and then block them.....Punters who buy cheapies are worse than £3-4k punters, they think you are their own foc personal repair centre for 2 months...Not worth the grief for a small amount of profit!

Sorry but I have to disagree with this and many of the other comments. AutoJacob is only getting problems from customers because he must be misdescribing them and/or inadequately advertising them. 

I understand pitch men don’t want the hassle but I don’t mind selling a £1-200 p/x turd for £400 via eBay but the advert MUST BE BRUTAL and you MUST write on the advert that it’s sold for spares AND the buyer will be signing the following. Sold for repair, unroadworthy, no warranty given or implied & instructed to trailer away. Once you’ve looked the punter in the eye, told him you “don’t give a f***, it’s take it or leave it”, get them to read & sign your disclaimer they do NOT come back. Anyone getting complaints after that is probably making false promises & playing up the car, rather than playing it down.

As for crushing old bangers - no f***ing chance! There is ALWAYS someone for a few hundred quids worth of shite out there. 

Controlling buyers expectations is the key here - any phone call asking about it’s reliability, “will it pass an MOT?”, “can you guarantee it’ll be fine for a few months”, “It’s for my daughter” etc., should be TOLD STRAIGHT & if they don’t understand then terminate the call forthwith.

[Darkbluecars 10]

As motor traders don't we have a legal responsibility to ensure that a SOR vehicle is not driven off of our premises but towed or trailered away. Thats what I was lead to believe by Trading Standards. If that car, that we've just said is only suitable for SOR, had an accident being driven away we could be liable to legal action. That's always been my understanding of the law anyway.

[c_cars 56]

38 minutes ago, BHM said:

Sorry but I have to disagree with this and many of the other comments. AutoJacob is only getting problems from customers because he must be misdescribing them and/or inadequately advertising them. 

I understand pitch men don’t want the hassle but I don’t mind selling a £1-200 p/x turd for £400 via eBay but the advert MUST BE BRUTAL and you MUST write on the advert that it’s sold for spares AND the buyer will be signing the following. Sold for repair, unroadworthy, no warranty given or implied & instructed to trailer away. Once you’ve looked the punter in the eye, told him you “don’t give a f***, it’s take it or leave it”, get them to read & sign your disclaimer they do NOT come back. Anyone getting complaints after that is probably making false promises & playing up the car, rather than playing it down.

As for crushing old bangers - no f***ing chance! There is ALWAYS someone for a few hundred quids worth of shite out there. 

Controlling buyers expectations is the key here - any phone call asking about it’s reliability, “will it pass an MOT?”, “can you guarantee it’ll be fine for a few months”, “It’s for my daughter” etc., should be TOLD STRAIGHT & if they don’t understand then terminate the call forthwith.

100% agree, lost count of the amount of ebay auctions I’ve done over the years and can honestly say I’ve never had one come back.

With the trade being like it is these days surely it’s all about maximising profit opportunities rather than taking losses in an auction hall? 

[justina3 518]

7 minutes ago, Darkbluecars said:

As motor traders don't we have a legal responsibility to ensure that a SOR vehicle is not driven off of our premises but towed or trailered away. Thats what I was lead to believe by Trading Standards. If that car, that we've just said is only suitable for SOR, had an accident being driven away we could be liable to legal action. That's always been my understanding of the law anyway.

Tell trading standards to go study there law books again.

[trade vet 702]

8 minutes ago, Darkbluecars said:

As motor traders don't we have a legal responsibility to ensure that a SOR vehicle is not driven off of our premises but towed or trailered away. Thats what I was lead to believe by Trading Standards. If that car, that we've just said is only suitable for SOR, had an accident being driven away we could be liable to legal action. That's always been my understanding of the law anyway.

I agree,traders have a ‘duty of care’.However in BHM case,Trading Standards or whoever was prosecuting may have remote chance of winning so on financial grounds it is doubtful they would bring a case.

[justina3 518]

Just now, trade vet said:

I agree,traders have a ‘duty of care’.However in BHM case,Trading Standards or whoever was prosecuting may have remote chance of winning so on financial grounds it is doubtful they would bring a case.

Correct sir, we have a duty of care no matter what we sell be it a banger or a 20k minter our obligations do not change, as long as the car is advertised as a complete death trap and do not drive it away, we have no legal right to stop anyone driving away, wouldnt that be a wonderful thing if we could stop stupid people being stupid.

A&E would be half empty the police would be bored would that be called utopia 

[Darkbluecars 10]

21 minutes ago, justina3 said:

Tell trading standards to go study there law books again.

I was informed this by trading standards and it seemed to make sense to me. I did check and from the trading standards guidence to business website this is what they say

"If you have a vehicle that is to be sold as spares or for repair then this must be clearly indicated and should not be sold with any MOT or road tax. You should not allow the vehicle to be driven from your premises."

[justina3 518]

1 minute ago, Darkbluecars said:

I was informed this by trading standards and it seemed to make sense to me. I did check and from the trading standards guidence to business website this is what they say

"If you have a vehicle that is to be sold as spares or for repair then this must be clearly indicated and should not be sold with any MOT or road tax. You should not allow the vehicle to be driven from your premises."

i would dispute that 100% so if he says i am driving the car away which i just purchased so the goods are now legally mine, what do i have to do make a citizens arrest ? its just plain stupid and unenforceable. 

Can you also copy where that information is posted i would like to read the rest of it

[EPV 631]

9 minutes ago, justina3 said:

i would dispute that 100% so if he says i am driving the car away which i just purchased so the goods are now legally mine, what do i have to do make a citizens arrest ? its just plain stupid and unenforceable. 

Can you also copy where that information is posted i would like to read the rest of it

I’d say if you have an invoice stating that the car must be trailered away and they sign that you’re covered. Even if it WAS your responsibilty to force him to tow the car what if he sent the trailer away and climbed in it to drive it? Are you going to chase him down the road?

As you say it’s completely unenforceable. Just cover your area with the right paperwork and get on with your life. 

[AutoJacob 34]

See this is where it gets messy, it's why I'll probably just send all the shitters to the block from now on.

I use St Helens Motor Auctions (one of them cash only type of places).

9 hours ago, Dealer said:

Which auction do you send them to

A local AH - St Helens Motor Auctions, it's not worth paying massive entry fees with BCA / EPMA.

[Darkbluecars 10]

The link came from the Chartered Institute of Trading Standards website. The businesscompanion.info link seems to be used by them to explain and translate complicated law. Sorry the link doesn't take you to the site from here. If you Google " cits " car sales it will take you there.

"businesscompanion.info is delivered and managed by experts at the Chartered Trading Standards Institute (CTSI) so people can be sure the advice is practical, accurate and always up to date." 

I believe you are required to make it a condition of sale rather than trying to stop the action of driving away after the sale. 

[AutoJacob 34]

2 hours ago, tradex said:

"I have sold them on a trade sale only basis, no warranty, no returns."

No offence but there is your problem, a lack of understanding on retailing cars.

If you do a search there are endless threads on this subject and how to approach it within consumer law.

We have trade sale only reciepts, states the car is not roadworthy, spares or repairs, usual spiel.

[EPV 631]

There’s nothing wrong with a trade sales invoice. There’s everything wrong with issuing a trade sales invoice to a member of the public but again, as long as you have the right paperwork in place how can you be liable for enforcing trade vehicles are trailered away? 

[metcars 397]

AutoJacob

Those 'sold' prices, were they 'hammer' or 'home'?

And was the Astra a 3dr?

[D7neo 5]

7 hours ago, AutoJacob said:

See this is where it gets messy, it's why I'll probably just send all the shitters to the block from now on.

I use St Helens Motor Auctions (one of them cash only type of places).

A local AH - St Helens Motor Auctions, it's not worth paying massive entry fees with BCA / EPMA.

Are you St. Helens based? I don't know it was still running until yesterday, I'll probably go and have a look tomorrow

[AutoJacob 34]

29 minutes ago, met said:

AutoJacob

Those 'sold' prices, were they 'hammer' or 'home'?

And was the Astra a 3dr?

Hammer and nope, it was a 5dr.

[metcars 397]

Just now, AutoJacob said:

Hammer and nope, it was a 5dr.

So, what were the 'home' prices?

[BHM 994]

9 hours ago, Darkbluecars said:

I was informed this by trading standards and it seemed to make sense to me. I did check and from the trading standards guidence to business website this is what they say

"If you have a vehicle that is to be sold as spares or for repair then this must be clearly indicated and should not be sold with any MOT or road tax. You should not allow the vehicle to be driven from your premises."

What a load of bollocks. Sorry, but what decade are your local Trading Standards operating in? RFL hasn’t been transferable for years & you can’t remove an MOT from a car. 

As for governing what someone does with THEIR car - put simply we have no legal powers to do so whatsoever.

I decided to write “instructed to trailer away” on the adverts & invoices as I feel it is an honest & accurate reflection of my responsibilities & legal powers. 

There’s no TS department in the land going to prosecute a trader for advertising infringements on heaps CLEARLY advertised for repairs etc. that has my FULL disclaimer ON THE ADVERT (this is what the courts are interested in) and on the signed invoice.

All this is a shame because until recently I used to just give the buyer a few hard words & pocket the money but after one smartarse tried it on for a few quid I decided I’d cover myself. Whatever happened to the good old days of a few honest words & a handshake?

[Arfur Dealy 823]

19 minutes ago, BHM said:

What a load of bollocks. Sorry, but what decade are your local Trading Standards operating in? RFL hasn’t been transferable for years & you can’t remove an MOT from a car. 

As for governing what someone does with THEIR car - put simply we have no legal powers to do so whatsoever.

I decided to write “instructed to trailer away” on the adverts & invoices as I feel it is an honest & accurate reflection of my responsibilities & legal powers. 

There’s no TS department in the land going to prosecute a trader for advertising infringements on heaps CLEARLY advertised for repairs etc. that has my FULL disclaimer ON THE ADVERT (this is what the courts are interested in) and on the signed invoice.

All this is a shame because until recently I used to just give the buyer a few hard words & pocket the money but after one smartarse tried it on for a few quid I decided I’d cover myself. Whatever happened to the good old days of a few honest words & a handshake?

I absolutely agree. It’s rare I sell a true bag of shite to the public but there is absolutely nothing wrong or illegal selling an “unroadworthy vehicle” on an “unroadworthy vehicle” SOR invoice.  You just do a brutally honest video or written advert.... we’ve been through this numerous times before, BHM is right. Just say the MoT is invalid and hold on to the cert.

You will only fall fowl if you don’t protect your ass and sell to a Cretin. 

Oh and “trade sale” invoices are strictly a no no unless you are selling to the trade with proof and then the advert still has to beccorrect under the SOGA b2b rules. Be warned. 

[Darkbluecars 10]

I don't think anyone suggested, TS or my self, suggested lying down in front of a customer if he sends his trailer away. I believe if a trader decides for whatever reason that a car is only suitable for SOR we have a responsibility to behave in a specific way.   So an invoice that states the vehicle can only be trailered away and that's a condition of sale and the keys are only handed over when the conditions are met is appropriate.

Looking at this from another angle maybe it seems to make sense. If a trader sells a car to a customer as a SOR, by his admission it's not suitable for use on the road. The trader then let's the customer drive it away onto a public road. The vehicle shortly afterwards has an accident causing injury. If the trader has allowed that car to be on a road without taking reasonable steps to prevent it the injured party may have recourse to civil action. If I was the injured party I would seriously be looking at the trader not the just the person who's got £395 to spend on a car. 

I know this seems a bit far fetched but it will be why the law and guidelines are framed as they are.

[BHM 994]

10 hours ago, Darkbluecars said:

I don't think anyone suggested, TS or my self, suggested lying down in front of a customer if he sends his trailer away. I believe if a trader decides for whatever reason that a car is only suitable for SOR we have a responsibility to behave in a specific way.   So an invoice that states the vehicle can only be trailered away and that's a condition of sale and the keys are only handed over when the conditions are met is appropriate.

Looking at this from another angle maybe it seems to make sense. If a trader sells a car to a customer as a SOR, by his admission it's not suitable for use on the road. The trader then let's the customer drive it away onto a public road. The vehicle shortly afterwards has an accident causing injury. If the trader has allowed that car to be on a road without taking reasonable steps to prevent it the injured party may have recourse to civil action. If I was the injured party I would seriously be looking at the trader not the just the person who's got £395 to spend on a car. 

I know this seems a bit far fetched but it will be why the law and guidelines are framed as they are.

Sorry, I think you’re well off course. Legally the police won’t be interested - the duty lies with the driver. 

Under a civil action the onus of proof is less but  still your advert will match your invoice. The only argument would laughably be about allowing someone to drive away in THEIR car but how on earth can we stop someone driving away in THEIR car? Sorry but that’s a load of old tosh, if someone stabs someone does the victim take the retailer who sold the knife to court?

Good luck refusing to hand over the keys to someone you’ve just sold a car too. My responsibility is to advertise correctly, not mislead customers & record the sale correctly. I’m not a moral guardian for the actions of strangers. 

If you think something through to the worst possible scenario you’d never, ever sell anything.