Customer returned vehicle

[aderac 0]

Hi everyone, new to forum, been reading the forum for a few months whilst setting up a new business in the motor trade. I am a newbie in the business, but there's two of us, so hopefully that helps...

 

We recently sold a vehicle, paid for and collected and everyone happy, until... customer decided he didn't like the feel of the clutch! and then got a 'specialist' who said it was worn, but it was not slipping. 

 

Anyways, we did not feel obliged to change a part that wasn't faulty, but did offer to supply the clutch or except the vehicle back, as we're trying to build a reputation, he chose to return.

 

Couple of things I would appreciate your experience on if possible. 

Were we right in not feeling we should replace the clutch, or wrong?

 

and secondly, have we made an oversight regarding the logbook, as this has obviously been sent off to dvla with his details on, and now won't be back for a few weeks and with the added bonus of an extra keeper! is this the norm? what is the return procedure? do you guys hold on to them for a little while?

 

cheers

 

 

[metcars 397]

What sort of warranty did he get from you?

[aderac 0]

We currently stick a 3 month bronze warrantywise one on all our vehicles at present

[Ken 10]

Legally doesn’t the car have to be fit for purpose for 6 months after the date of sale?

 

I have had a similar issue on a couple of occasions where customers have taken cars bought from us to franchised dealers and they have ripped them to shreds. The customers have then expected us to cough up, which we have! One occasion we sold a car at cost to a customer and well below the retail value. They were happy with the deal. They then took it to a Honda garage then we were sent a £1600 bill! We coughed up though, as like you, we are trying to build a reputation.

[aderac 0]

Absolutely, if the clutch had failed I would of sorted a.s.a.p, however, he just doesn't like the feel and now a garage has jumped on his insecurities about it I'm guessing, thinking they may get a clutch job out of it.

[James Baggott 227]

Sounds like he was trying it on. But that said I think you did the right thing. Far better to keep your reputation, especially as you're just starting out, than to lose it all because one customer doesn't like the feel of the clutch. Next thing you know he'll be bad mouthing you all over town and business gets tough. Annoying as it is now, in my opinion, you made the right call.

[jimreidvehicle 255]

In reply to you post. A lot depends on the age and the mileage of the car you sold, which you have not stated but I think you did the right thing, had the clutch been slipping or had it gone within a short period of the customer owning then you would have had to replace it completely free but given the circumstances you have done right by your customer by offering a compromise by supplying the parts.

I think the customer (if he takes independent advice) , will accept your offer of goodwill as the clutch is worn, and as a car is full of parts that move and wear there has to be an acceptance of wear and tear from the buyer. If you are buying a 5 year old car don't expect a car with a 6 months clutch in it!

If he refuses to accept this and goes for the return unfortunately you have an extra owner on the V5C unless you can convince the customer to write a letter to send along with V5C to the DVLA explaining that the car had been registered in his name and address in error, this may get DVLA to remove the details, but more often than not returned cars will have an extra owner!

Best of luck

Jim

[Gavin@Rousdon 137]

The car has to be 'fit for purpose' as has been stated earlier (the 6 months isn't correct and a bit of a myth) . The feel of a clutch alone wouldn't be cause to reject the car, if the customer drove the car prior to sale as he should have noticed how it felt then. If he claims it felt different on a test drive it's proving that the 'fault' wasn't noticable at point of sale.  A lot depends on the age and mileage of the car and also how long the customer has owned it. It's not unreasonable to expect a used vehicle covering X number of miles to have sign of wear. Did the 'specialist' garage claim the clutch was worn or worn to excess??

 

Sometimes you have to be firm with customers and explain its not a new car. This shouldn't be used as an excuse to try and wriggle out of paying for aftersales claims but is a good way to start negotiating a resolution. Drive the car yourself with the customer and be honest, it the fault is clear repair it, if its not explain your opinion and listen to the customers, 

 

I understand it's a lot easier for us dealers who have our own workshops to repair cars under warranty as the costs are much lower.

 

Look at these two links, whilst it still leaves 'grey' area's it gives you a good understanding of how things should work

 

http://www.norfolk.gov.uk/view/NCC094699

 

http://www.norfolk.gov.uk/view/NCC094700

[Gavin@Rousdon 137]

Legally doesn’t the car have to be fit for purpose for 6 months after the date of sale?

 

I have had a similar issue on a couple of occasions where customers have taken cars bought from us to franchised dealers and they have ripped them to shreds. The customers have then expected us to cough up, which we have! One occasion we sold a car at cost to a customer and well below the retail value. They were happy with the deal. They then took it to a Honda garage then we were sent a £1600 bill! We coughed up though, as like you, we are trying to build a reputation.

 

Ken, a bit of advice, make sure any warranty or aftersales book you give them states the procedure for getting work done under warranty. Mainly that you need to be informed before work is started. There was a case a few years back when a dealer was handed a £3000 bill for a Discovery gearbox, this first he heard was when the car was repaired and the bill was sent to him. It went court where the  dealer didn't dispute that there could have been a fault but claimed if has was made aware of it he could have rectified it at a lower cost to himself. The judge ruled in the favour of the customer on the bias that when the car was sold the customer was given no clear guidelines of how a claim under warranty should be made (despite the OTF saying the dealer should be the first post of call). 

 

Since reading that I've always made sure my warranty books (which the customer signs) state I need to be informed.

 

Also on the 6 month time limit, the law is that within the first 6 months the dealer must prove the fault wasn't present at 'time of sale' after 6 months it is the customer who has to prove the fault was present.

 

Have a read of the links i've posted above, they help an lot in educating us to what the law is !!!

[aderac 0]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies. The the vehicle was a 06 Caddy, and we just had the report in, which states 'slight judder felt on test drive, although not slipping nor heavy' and that was written on the bottom of the report.

From what you guys have told me, I'm happy with how we dealt with it. I've made myself aware of our obligations during the 6 months before hand, just began doubting myself when our offer to free issue was declined and a refund demanded. Thought were were going that extra mile. Still not completely a dead deal, a resolution may be found at the 11th hour! 

 

We have a very good mechanic that sub contracts to us, however we do protect ourselves from anything major by bolting on a warrantywise warranty as well.

 

Thanks for the help though guys.

[Ken 10]

Thanks Gavin,

 

We too use Warranty Wise for all of our Warranty's. I've been told on a few occasions by other dealers that I'm a little too soft with some things. But like the OP, we are trying to build up a good reputation. I wouldnt supply anything with known faults. I'm just not like that!

Ken, a bit of advice, make sure any warranty or aftersales book you give them states the procedure for getting work done under warranty. Mainly that you need to be informed before work is started. There was a case a few years back when a dealer was handed a £3000 bill for a Discovery gearbox, this first he heard was when the car was repaired and the bill was sent to him. It went court where the  dealer didn't dispute that there could have been a fault but claimed if has was made aware of it he could have rectified it at a lower cost to himself. The judge ruled in the favour of the customer on the bias that when the car was sold the customer was given no clear guidelines of how a claim under warranty should be made (despite the OTF saying the dealer should be the first post of call). 

 

Since reading that I've always made sure my warranty books (which the customer signs) state I need to be informed.

 

Also on the 6 month time limit, the law is that within the first 6 months the dealer must prove the fault wasn't present at 'time of sale' after 6 months it is the customer who has to prove the fault was present.

 

Have a read of the links i've posted above, they help an lot in educating us to what the law is !!!

[aderac 0]

Just took a look at those links, cheers Gavin. 

[Gavin@Rousdon 137]

Thanks Gavin,

 

We too use Warranty Wise for all of our Warranty's. I've been told on a few occasions by other dealers that I'm a little too soft with some things. But like the OP, we are trying to build up a good reputation. I wouldnt supply anything with known faults. I'm just not like that!

 

Hi Ken

 

have you considered running your own warranty? I use Lawgistics warranty books and put £100 for every car I sell into a pot. I find it give me 100% control over the warranty process but as I have said I have my own workshop so that helps alot. 

 

As for 'know faults' I would guess that in most cases that go to court the judge will side with the customer despite what the truth is. Cars are a mechanic minefield and I guess most judges don't understand (or choose not to care)  the complex nature of a car. Always feel free to ask me advise !! You seem to be wanting to do the job right but don't try and over do it....customers smell blood sometimes and will take advantage. 

[Ken 10]

Hi Gavin,

 

We actually have used Law Logistics warranty books in the past to be honest with you. We just find it's better for us to offer the Warranty Wise warranties. On average they only cost about £40 + VAT. The law logistics books were about £7.50 each I think? Although Warranty Wise wanted £600 for a 3 month warranty on a RX8 recently!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL! Apparently they are high risk.

 

We have got wise now and learnt a lot over almost 12 months of trading. It's been a real learning curve. I do enjoy it though, and I think that's half the battle!

 

If I'm unsure in the future, I think I will just start a thread on here like the OP.

 

Thanks for the advice!

[Wheelerdealer1 91]

Be firm but fair, some customers will take advantage and that makes the job harder, especially when your dealing with a low margin car in the first place, build a reputation of course, but you don't want a reputation for being a walk over, as said above customers smell blood

[Sensei 12]

The old saying of a car is as only as good as the day you buy it is certainly used by many including me .. i think you handled the customer all good mate .. as we had a customer return a car after 5/6 days of buying saying there was a thrust bearing problem with a clutch but what you also have to remember is how the car has been driven in those 5/6 days of ownership which could well of simply contributed to clutch problems which is was i stressed.

[c_cars 56]

 

have you considered running your own warranty? I use Lawgistics warranty books and put £100 for every car I sell into a pot. I find it give me 100% control over the warranty process but as I have said I have my own workshop so that helps alot. 

Just out of interest Gavin, how do you cover distance sales with your own warranty? Do you insist on the car coming back to you or do you liase with customers local workshops to resolve issues?

[Gavin@Rousdon 137]

Just out of interest Gavin, how do you cover distance sales with your own warranty? Do you insist on the car coming back to you or do you liase with customers local workshops to resolve issues?

 

If the vehicle is local is always has to come back to us. If it is a distance away I explain to the customer that the warranty is with ourselves but if its a minor fault (upto £100) get it fixed locally and I will be happy to pay but if its a major fault the car will need to come back to us. It's not really been a problem, I did pay out about £700 to a BMW dealer in N.I for a fault of a BMW 320 and a goodwill payment of £1000 on a RS6 gearbox but in the 4 year I've been running my own warranty that's the only big payouts I've had.  If you put aside £100 for every car you sell the warranty account soon becomes a healthy back up fund.

 

Saying all that lots of the cars I sell are around 3 years old so should have the same kind of warranty come backs like older cars will.