peter..o 8 Posted June 17, 2017 Hi all,sold a 2009 rio diesel on 27 jan 17,no issues or contact till now,broke down this week with a loud bang and wodn't run properley,thankfully stopped straight away and parked it,we went out within 2 hours and rcovered the car,turned out to be a seal on the intercooler(where the tank meets the core)so replacement intercooler required,replaced this(local factor had one in stock wich suprised us muist be a common part)but customer (his daughter actually)refusing to pay citing unfit for purpose etc.the fault was not there at point of sale and is just a sudden failure of that part,any thoughts,regards to all,Peter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andymc1973 199 Posted June 17, 2017 its a joke at the minute, if i hear unfit for purpose again i'll scream Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Branning 149 Posted June 17, 2017 Why did you go ahead and repair the car without discussing who's paying the bill first? The fact that you rushed out to recover the car (which you sold 5 months earlier ) kind of just makes you out to be responsible for the problem. I feel you have just lumbered yourself unnecessarily with a repair bill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M.J 35 Posted June 17, 2017 Pay up and move on, easier in the long run if she's already spouting CRA. As mentioned above you've already taken responsibility for the fault in the customers eyes by rushing out to recover and repair. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rory RSC 596 Posted June 18, 2017 16 hours ago, M.J said: Pay up and move on, easier in the long run if she's already spouting CRA. As mentioned above you've already taken responsibility for the fault in the customers eyes by rushing out to recover and repair. Its not. It really is not at all and its this stance which is making things worse for all of us. CRA is something we all need to understand and get our heads around. Don't be scared of it. They can spout it all they want having been on citizens advices website and then don' some google research on honest johns forum but the long and short of it. I sell used cars, I prep them well. Really, really well. I service them. I offer a 3 month/3000mile warranty and I don't cover tyres bulbs and breakpads during that time. I am pretty much covering everything else. If you choose not to extend the warranty and have a problem after 5 or 6 months having covered 2000/3000+ miles over and above the period I warranted the car for then by all means I am sorry to hear that however it really is not my fault and I am not responsible. I would not get involved, I would not collect it and I would not inspect it. It is a used car and something has just gone wrong, possibly a known model issue, possibly just one of those things that comes with owning a car. Learn the CRA, learn it some more and fully understand it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M.J 35 Posted June 18, 2017 You can learn the CRA all you want but what is the current success rate for dealers when taken to court?? Which is (unfortunately) why i pay up. Its not us that needs to learn the CRA, its the courts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Branning 149 Posted June 18, 2017 There seems to be a lot of confusion with the CRA. The way i look at it is...the day the customer buys the car it becomes their property, ownership of the car does not transfer after 6 months ! Obviously as dealers we have a right to make sure the car is fit for purpose and safe, as Rory has said prep the cars well before sale...PDI and MOT preferably. Be clear on your warranty terms if you give one, set it out clearly so the buyer knows exactly whats covered and whats not. Be helpful but never be a pushover. Very thick skin required - didnt you learn this at dealer college ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andymc1973 199 Posted June 18, 2017 we need test cases to refer to Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XFS 70 Posted June 18, 2017 8 hours ago, Rory RSC said: Its not. It really is not at all and its this stance which is making things worse for all of us. CRA is something we all need to understand and get our heads around. Don't be scared of it. They can spout it all they want having been on citizens advices website and then don' some google research on honest johns forum but the long and short of it. I sell used cars, I prep them well. Really, really well. I service them. I offer a 3 month/3000mile warranty and I don't cover tyres bulbs and breakpads during that time. I am pretty much covering everything else. If you choose not to extend the warranty and have a problem after 5 or 6 months having covered 2000/3000+ miles over and above the period I warranted the car for then by all means I am sorry to hear that however it really is not my fault and I am not responsible. I would not get involved, I would not collect it and I would not inspect it. It is a used car and something has just gone wrong, possibly a known model issue, possibly just one of those things that comes with owning a car. Learn the CRA, learn it some more and fully understand it. This. Common sense needs to be applied. I prep my cars properly and deal with people honestly. I have no fear of CRA or the courts. If a customer is going to be unreasonable I'm going to stand my ground. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BHM 994 Posted June 19, 2017 If you believe the car was right at point of sale you should stand your ground. Admittedly everything's not black & white and any trader knows cars can sometimes bring up faults so if a punter phones up two days later to say his car is suddenly running like a bag of shite, then fair enough. However these chancers phoning after a few months should be firmly brushed off. The CRA can state what it likes & as for people threatening you with the court service, TS, etc. I always tell them to go ahead. Call their bluff, 99 times out of a 100 that's all it is, bluff. On a sideways note I seem to get a couple per year who phone up 11-12 months down the line threatening court etc. because their car has failed the MOT on trivia like drop links or brake pads etc. and then quote some ridiculous figure they'll settle for (£1100 for Forester discs & pads - I suspect I could get a Jumbo Jet freshly shod for that money). My response is "Crack on, and its VOSA you need to speak to, goodbye" Unfortunately 50% of the general public are as thick as pig shit & are horrible, lying, greedy bastards. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I genuinely believe this. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trade vet 704 Posted June 19, 2017 17 hours ago, andymc1973 said: we need test cases to refer to Can I refer you to my post from 16 May under ' What are my chances' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
It's me 615 Posted June 19, 2017 5 hours ago, BHM said: If you believe the car was right at point of sale you should stand your ground. Admittedly everything's not black & white and any trader knows cars can sometimes bring up faults so if a punter phones up two days later to say his car is suddenly running like a bag of shite, then fair enough. However these chancers phoning after a few months should be firmly brushed off. The CRA can state what it likes & as for people threatening you with the court service, TS, etc. I always tell them to go ahead. Call their bluff, 99 times out of a 100 that's all it is, bluff. On a sideways note I seem to get a couple per year who phone up 11-12 months down the line threatening court etc. because their car has failed the MOT on trivia like drop links or brake pads etc. and then quote some ridiculous figure they'll settle for (£1100 for Forester discs & pads - I suspect I could get a Jumbo Jet freshly shod for that money). My response is "Crack on, and its VOSA you need to speak to, goodbye" Unfortunately 50% of the general public are as thick as pig shit & are horrible, lying, greedy bastards. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I genuinely believe this. cock on Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arfur Dealy 823 Posted June 19, 2017 Dr Mr Customer, maintaining your car is your responsibility. The CRA protects the seller from unreasonable claims, wear and tear is not covered. An 8 year old seal breaking is clearly due to age and use. Good day to you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trident 24 Posted June 19, 2017 Dear ... Unfortunately the warranty ran out on the 00/00/0000, as we prepare our vehicles to the highest standard, we can assure you that this fault was not present at the time of selling, it passed its multi point inspection (please see the pre delivery report) and also passed it's mot, with no advisories. Vehicles are inherently a high risk item to buy due solely to the many many components it is made from, all of which will have a degree of wear and tear after 8 years of service. In this instance we do not feel this to be a faulty part which can go back some 5 months as no complaint has been received which would point out this fault at the time of sale. It therefore does not form part of any warranty claim or any claim under your statutory rights through CRA 2015 as this is clearly a wear and tear issue. The vehicle is ready for collection upon full settlement of the invoice attached. Please note we have provided the recovery free of charge and to minimise the time you are without your vehicle attended within 2 hours of the initial call. We trust this now concludes the matter and look forward to seeing you back on the road. Love, hugs and best wishes, your local friendly garage mwah Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trade vet 704 Posted June 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Trident said: Dear ... Unfortunately the warranty ran out on the 00/00/0000, as we prepare our vehicles to the highest standard, we can assure you that this fault was not present at the time of selling, it passed its multi point inspection (please see the pre delivery report) and also passed it's mot, with no advisories. Vehicles are inherently a high risk item to buy due solely to the many many components it is made from, all of which will have a degree of wear and tear after 8 years of service. In this instance we do not feel this to be a faulty part which can go back some 5 months as no complaint has been received which would point out this fault at the time of sale. It therefore does not form part of any warranty claim or any claim under your statutory rights through CRA 2015 as this is clearly a wear and tear issue. The vehicle is ready for collection upon full settlement of the invoice attached. Please note we have provided the recovery free of charge and to minimise the time you are without your vehicle attended within 2 hours of the initial call. We trust this now concludes the matter and look forward to seeing you back on the road. Love, hugs and best wishes, your local friendly garage mwah Great wording.........except I am unsure that if it got to a small claims court,it could be construed that all your vehicles represent a 'high risk'. Otherwise,maybe we should copy most of that ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trident 24 Posted June 20, 2017 15 hours ago, trade vet said: Great wording.........except I am unsure that if it got to a small claims court,it could be construed that all your vehicles represent a 'high risk'. Otherwise,maybe we should copy most of that ! I Would argue that all vehicles are 'high risk' isn't that why we have all these issues with CRA? (that's kind of my point!) but i see the angle you would read that from and i would ammend that sentence to read 'All vehicles.....' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tony F 38 Posted June 20, 2017 The Cra is there to protect the dealer too. The consumer rights states that a fault must have been present on the day the customer collected the goods. Their consumer rights do not apply and cannot be enforced if it can be proven that no pre existing fault existed. Which in this case can be proven by the dealer by the fact that the customer would not have been able to drive the car for almost 6 months with the fault present. We would be charging the customer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arfur Dealy 823 Posted June 21, 2017 Absolutely right Tony. The CRA is there to protect us from unreasonable claims, you just need to prep well and cover your yourself. I'm with Lawgistics, they are worth every penny. Cheers Simon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
