Tricky Customer

[trade vet 704]

17 minutes ago, J.T said:

Hi Jordan,

having just given away a free car in court today to a similar bell end, I can strongly advise you to reply to his messages. I would write him a formal letter asking him to reply in the same way and not by text message detailing what work he has done and why, more importantly ask him to return the vehicle for you to inspect. If he writes to you in reply with more guff, ask him again in another letter to return the vehicle and say you cannot proceed with his claim until he does.

What I've learnt from my day in court today is that you must reply to everything he sends you, and get everything in writing.

Good luck with him anyway, and just remember A.P.A.B 

 

Hi JT,.......interesting debut post.When you have calmed down would you mind describing the circumstances of your coming second in court or maybe how you were stitched up........Also A.P.A.B  ?

[NOACROSS 414]

12 minutes ago, trade vet said:

Hi JT,.......interesting debut post.When you have calmed down would you mind describing the circumstances of your coming second in court or maybe how you were stitched up........Also A.P.A.B  ?

I’m guessing here and I’m sure he’s joking- but: All Punters are Bastards?

He’s right though (not about all punters) and it’s pretty much the advice I offered earlier in the post. Reply, record/document everything...

[J.T 39]

25 minutes ago, trade vet said:

Hi JT,.......interesting debut post.When you have calmed down would you mind describing the circumstances of your coming second in court or maybe how you were stitched up........Also A.P.A.B  ?

Hi Trade Vet, as you can imagine it's not been a great day so sorry for having a bit of a rant in my first post. I recognise a few of the names on here that used to frequent the old Autotrader forums, if they are still going?

Noacross is correct, but of course I was joking as 99% of my customers are reasonable people. 

I wouldn't want to go into full details of what happened in the public forum, but we had two phone calls. The first was just to tell me there was a problem, the second was him making a claim we had left his car in a dangerous condition and that he was reporting me to Trading Standards. I had asked him to bring the car back on both occasions, but two days later he sent me an email just confirming what he had said in the phone call but he lied in it as he said I refused to do anything. Which was untrue as I'd asked him to return the car both times, he didn't want to bring the car back basically and wanted it repaired at his workshop. That's what I refused to do. I think we all know 'you refused to do anything' is customer speak for you refused to do it my way.

I didn't reply to that email because it was just him repeating what he had said in the phone call, and was waiting to hear from TS (which never happened). 

He then based his whole case around the 'if they refuse to do anything then I'm entitled to have the repair done at any cost and then sue the dealer for it afterwards' section of the Consumer Rights Act, so it was his word against mine that I'd refused to do anything. Or so I thought.

The judge picked up on that comment he had made in his email and said that because I hadn't replied to it and said that was untrue, and I had asked him to return the car instead, that on the balance of probabilities it was the customer that was telling the truth that I had refused to do anything as he had stated it in that email. Case closed.

As I said I didn't reply to that email as it was just him confirming what we had said in the phone call, and I didn't realise that comment he made in that email would have been so important 14 months later!

Everything else about the case was irrelevant. Enjoy your free car mate.

Not that I'm bitter or anything. 

 

[It's me 615]

22 hours ago, J.T said:

Hi Trade Vet, as you can imagine it's not been a great day so sorry for having a bit of a rant in my first post. I recognise a few of the names on here that used to frequent the old Autotrader forums, if they are still going?

Noacross is correct, but of course I was joking as 99% of my customers are reasonable people. 

I wouldn't want to go into full details of what happened in the public forum, but we had two phone calls. The first was just to tell me there was a problem, the second was him making a claim we had left his car in a dangerous condition and that he was reporting me to Trading Standards. I had asked him to bring the car back on both occasions, but two days later he sent me an email just confirming what he had said in the phone call but he lied in it as he said I refused to do anything. Which was untrue as I'd asked him to return the car both times, he didn't want to bring the car back basically and wanted it repaired at his workshop. That's what I refused to do. I think we all know 'you refused to do anything' is customer speak for you refused to do it my way.

I didn't reply to that email because it was just him repeating what he had said in the phone call, and was waiting to hear from TS (which never happened). 

He then based his whole case around the 'if they refuse to do anything then I'm entitled to have the repair done at any cost and then sue the dealer for it afterwards' section of the Consumer Rights Act, so it was his word against mine that I'd refused to do anything. Or so I thought.

The judge picked up on that comment he had made in his email and said that because I hadn't replied to it and said that was untrue, and I had asked him to return the car instead, that on the balance of probabilities it was the customer that was telling the truth that I had refused to do anything as he had stated it in that email. Case closed.

As I said I didn't reply to that email as it was just him confirming what we had said in the phone call, and I didn't realise that comment he made in that email would have been so important 14 months later!

Everything else about the case was irrelevant. Enjoy your free car mate.

Not that I'm bitter or anything. 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by jason doyle motor sales
=

[BHM 994]

9 hours ago, jason doyle motor sales said:

this needs reiterating then

if you lose the case and the judgement goes against you ----you at this time must ask for the car back or the plaintiff  keeps it

I imagine that’ll only work if the claimant claimed for a full refund due to wanting to the reject due a major fault(s).

If the claim is for repairs/rectification (irrespective of the monetary amount, even if they exceed the purchase price) I don’t imagine any request for the car would be entertained. Indeed in these cases the car may of been sold in the time between instigation of proceedings & court hearing.

[trade vet 704]

When you have a complaint you have to record everything even the time of a phone call and then reply promptly even by recorded delivery letter if necessary.We learnt this long ago when we started doing our own warranties and some punters would make fake claims to Black Horse to try and void their agreement.

Its an awfull feeling leaving court having come second and knowing the punter has lied and it’s costing  you a few grand.

[David Horgan 564]

14 hours ago, J.T said:

having just given away a free car in court today to a similar bell end

You gave away a whole car to a customer because of a court case , What on gods earth was the claim for that needed the whole car giving away ? 

[It's me 615]

12 hours ago, BHM said:

I imagine that’ll only work if the claimant claimed for a full refund due to wanting to the reject due a major fault(s).

If the claim is for repairs/rectification (irrespective of the monetary amount, even if they exceed the purchase price) I don’t imagine any request for the car would be entertained. Indeed in these cases the car may of been sold in the time between instigation of proceedings & court hearing.

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by jason doyle motor sales
=

[BHM 994]

I think there’s a distinct difference between a claim for repairs and a simple claim for a refund.

Let me assure you, anyone who’s been to court over a car will tell you the judge won’t entertain any nonsense about expecting members of the public to have the money to store a faulty car for months, use hired transport and/or generally put a hold on with their lives over a few grands worth of claim. In the case of a claim for repairs the judge will not give a hoot whether or not the claimant still owns the car. I would assume it’ll be the opposite in the case of a claim for a refund.

Overall for the average law abiding small motor retailer I’d say consider saving on professional legal advice fees & the once or twice you’ll be taken to court take your chances. Even if you lose you’ll be well in the black.

As when AD helpfully directed us to the CAG website, a contributor on there said he wouldn’t even give them the time of day in a dispute with a motor retailer. I thought this was sensible advice amongst the sea of misinformation.

Edited September 10, 2019 by BHM

[J.T 39]

9 hours ago, BHM said:

I imagine that’ll only work if the claimant claimed for a full refund due to wanting to the reject due a major fault(s).

If the claim is for repairs/rectification (irrespective of the monetary amount, even if they exceed the purchase price) I don’t imagine any request for the car would be entertained. Indeed in these cases the car may of been sold in the time between instigation of proceedings & court hearing.

You're correct BHM, he was claiming the cost of repairs and not rejecting the vehicle.

[J.T 39]

8 hours ago, trade vet said:

When you have a complaint you have to record everything even the time of a phone call and then reply promptly even by recorded delivery letter if necessary.We learnt this long ago when we started doing our own warranties and some punters would make fake claims to Black Horse to try and void their agreement.

Its an awfull feeling leaving court having come second and knowing the punter has lied and it’s costing  you a few grand.

Obviously I replied to his following letters of complaint and replied to him in full and within the allowed times etc, but it was just this email that was the issue. I wouldn't class that as a letter of complaint, and he even wrote this is just to confirm the contents of our telephone call. If he'd written a complaint and asked me to reply in 14 days etc as the CPR rules state, then I would have replied to it.

Judging by what I've read here so far I'm not the only one to have had my pants pulled down, and it's not the best feeling especially when you try to play straight and do the right thing by people.

[J.T 39]

9 hours ago, David Horgan said:

You gave away a whole car to a customer because of a court case , What on gods earth was the claim for that needed the whole car giving away ? 

I was feeling in a generous mood David, plus you have to do your bit for the community sometimes. I'll go in to more detail when I get into the members section but let's just say he had a go at fixing it himself with the help of a workshop that left him with a big bill and a non runner then washed their hands of it, he then gets it repaired somewhere else and gets a bigger bill and takes me to court for the whole lot. 

The judge found him the flimsiest of loopholes, ruled in his favour and she was on the golf course by 2pm as planned.