How much prep is too much prep??

[Nick M.K. 574]

27 minutes ago, trade vet said:

You work on your own and don’t do any minting...?

Define minting?

Wet vac valet, machine polish, full alloy refurb on almost every set, PDR, bodyshop for even minor scratches at the bottom of the bumpers, interior leather repairs and conolising, non matching tyres on 1 axle get replaced with as new used or new. Then 2 days later we get to the mechanical nitty gritty and I can write for ages. 

But I am obsessive and half of my job satisfaction comes from the result after. I could easily sell a car with only half the prep I do. I know professional dealers that have never paid for a full wheel refurb. Still do OK. 

[trade vet 703]

1 minute ago, Nick M.K. said:

Define minting?

Wet vac valet, machine polish, full alloy refurb on almost every set, PDR, bodyshop for even minor scratches at the bottom of the bumpers, interior leather repairs and conolising, non matching tyres on 1 axle get replaced with as new used or new. Then 2 days later we get to the mechanical nitty gritty and I can write for ages. 

But I am obsessive and half of my job satisfaction comes from the result after. I could easily sell a car with only half the prep I do. I know professional dealers that have never paid for a full wheel refurb. Still do OK. 

I am referring to doing basic stuff yourself.Jet washing,machine polishing,wet vacs,inking and touch ups etc etc .It can become an addiction.

[Mark101 536]

41 minutes ago, trade vet said:

It can become an addiction.

I have much better addictions - most either come in a pita bread or a pint glass. (Not the same addiction of course).

Edited January 24, 2019 by Mark101

[ExCouncilJobsworth 27]

13 hours ago, boring dave said:

 

if you dont like getting your finger nails dirty get some illegals to do the dirty work for you for the price of some belly pork then do the double minting yourself

see

easy

goodas luckas

Whilst you play with a milf

[Arfur Dealy 823]

11 hours ago, Nick M.K. said:

Do you know any "photography stars" that achieve the same result only with a mid-range camera and some talent :-) 

I know people that ABSOLUTELY go to town on the prep, spend 4 days to a week just valeting and detailing a car only to then go and take a blurry dark photo of it with their old phone, advertise it on Gumtree and trade it out unsold in 90 days. 

Learning what you need to do to a car to make it sell takes a long time and so does learning what you DON'T have to do. Will you believe me if I tell you that I've never cleaned or had an engine cleaned properly in 14 years of dealing?

I’ve never cleaned an engine. Mr customer, look you can see there are no oil leaks.....

& I’ve never paid for a wheel refurb, I’d probably scratch them backing it out of the workshop.... 

[NCS_Pete 0]

Thanks for the replies guys appreciate it. 

We sell our vehicles on Auto Trader using their retail valuation price at a "great price". We make the cars pretty mint but we're not demanding top money for them. i'm the one sourcing cars and its a struggle to find cars with a decent margin after all has been done, It usually means looking in every crevasse of the internet to find these. 

[justlooking 48]

31 minutes ago, NCS_Pete said:

Thanks for the replies guys appreciate it. 

We sell our vehicles on Auto Trader using their retail valuation price at a "great price". We make the cars pretty mint but we're not demanding top money for them. i'm the one sourcing cars and its a struggle to find cars with a decent margin after all has been done, It usually means looking in every crevasse of the internet to find these. 

Are you not cheating yourself out of profit by making sure every car is “great price”

I.E, your rare example with all the extras may be the only one within 60 miles, I’d certainly be trying my hand at £6500 instead of £6144 for a week or two

[BHM 994]

Answer to the original question; The minimum you can get away with! 

It would be nice to have a crystal ball & know what sort of punter’s coming for a look.

You can get punters expecting a £500 p/x shitter to be mint &, if it’s priced keenly, you can get punters on a £4000 car who state “this is cheap, I couldn’t give a toss about a few scuffs & scabby wheels”. Horses for courses.

[NCS_Pete 0]

5 minutes ago, justlooking said:

Are you not cheating yourself out of profit by making sure every car is “great price”

I.E, your rare example with all the extras may be the only one within 60 miles, I’d certainly be trying my hand at £6500 instead of £6144 for a week or two

Arguably yes. But the method is price it right sell overnight rather than holding on for a couple of £100 of profit. then invest that money and turn another car as it's seen as a deal by the customer.   

[EPV 631]

10 minutes ago, NCS_Pete said:

Arguably yes. But the method is price it right sell overnight rather than holding on for a couple of £100 of profit. then invest that money and turn another car as it's seen as a deal by the customer.   

So you’re saying you’re struggling to find cars with acceptable margins in them and you would rather price cheaper (not right because the right price is the sale price) sell cars quicker and use that money to buy more stock and repeat. 

I can see a flaw there mate. You want fast selling cars for cheap. There’s a long queue. 

[NCS_Pete 0]

37 minutes ago, EPV said:

So you’re saying you’re struggling to find cars with acceptable margins in them and you would rather price cheaper (not right because the right price is the sale price) sell cars quicker and use that money to buy more stock and repeat. 

I can see a flaw there mate. You want fast selling cars for cheap. There’s a long queue. 

Not struggling we find cars. No what i was saying is we price ours lower make less money for a faster turn and still "mint" the cars. so i was basically trying to see how much prep other dealers do. as we do ours to a high standard but i'm thinking maybe we do too much for the price we're offering.

 

yeah i'd join that queue if there was one lol.  

[justlooking 48]

40 minutes ago, EPV said:

So you’re saying you’re struggling to find cars with acceptable margins in them and you would rather price cheaper (not right because the right price is the sale price) sell cars quicker and use that money to buy more stock and repeat. 

I can see a flaw there mate. You want fast selling cars for cheap. There’s a long queue. 

Horses for courses I spose, if you’ve got limited space on your pitch or warehouse Yet a steady stream of profitable cars ready to buy then yeah, price keenly to sell overnight but if you’re gonna be sat watching every car on your BCA watch list go for £500 over cap then try and get a bit more for your desirable stock rather than slashing profits 

[EPV 631]

1 minute ago, NCS_Pete said:

Not struggling we find cars. No what i was saying is we price ours lower make less money for a faster turn and still "mint" the cars. so i was basically trying to see how much prep other dealers do. as we do ours to a high standard but i'm thinking maybe we do too much for the price we're offering.

 

yeah i'd join that queue if there was one lol.  

Ok, well you did say above that as the buyer for the firm, you are struggling to find decent cars with a margin after your recon costs. You were offered the advice (good advice imo) that you should look to increase your prices where applicable (the example of the only one in 60 miles being a good example) but you have stated that you prefer to work to a certain marker on AT with the intention of selling the stock quicker, turning more cars etc. Straight out of an AT Masterclass, some good advice in those classes I've found!

As the buyer for the firm, you're no doubt expected to get the cars as cheaply as possible. Someone else presumably is in charge of recon, another in charge of selling and so on. You all have your own difficulties within your roles.

Mr recon says to you "you're paying to much for the stock, by the time I've minted these cars up there isn't enough margin" and you're thinking "what are other dealers doing, I'm thinking we're minting up too much and how can I possibly pay less for the stock when everyone wants it"

Vicious cycle.

As a one man band I don't have these concerns or musings, if when I get a car delivered, it's got a marginal bumper scuff, or an alloy that is on the borders or nibbled/smashed then I just spend the £60 or £40 and get it done. 

But what I do make sure I spend time on, is looking at what my competition is. I try and source cars that I have very little competition and even then I believe I can present better than them and steal the customer who is looking for that make/model/derivative. I try to aim for a price that gets the "good" marker because it does influence buyers but if you think the vast majority have a clue in the differences between good, great and low then sorry, they don't. They still think the cars are over priced, still want to chip, do a deal, get something off. But if I have a car that I know or believe will be popular, and I'm the only one, or one of two, then the marker means nothing to me and I'll put it at £500 above the good price marker.

Don't take this the wrong way but I can see you have been schooled in the AT way, price to 98% of market, turn more stock quickly so you can rinse and repeat etc. Maybe you think that it's the only way, the best way etc but I don't think it is. This is coming from someone who is a complete AT nut. I use all their tools, speak weekly with their performance partners and sidekicks and have been to a couple of master classes. 

I think you need to have a word with whoever sets your prices and ask them to stop being so lazy and just pricing to 98% of the market and do some proper research into what your competition is, for each car and price it accordingly. There are ways to increase margin, add value etc and cutting costs or standards isn't the way imo. Not for what I sell anyway. 

You cannot physically reduce the price of buying cars, You are doing your bit by as you say, scouring the internet and working hard to find the gems. Whoever does your pricing is being lazy and not putting in as much effort imo.

Good luck either way mate.

19 minutes ago, justlooking said:

Horses for courses I spose, if you’ve got limited space on your pitch or warehouse Yet a steady stream of profitable cars ready to buy then yeah, price keenly to sell overnight but if you’re gonna be sat watching every car on your BCA watch list go for £500 over cap then try and get a bit more for your desirable stock rather than slashing profits 

I agree entirely with you mate. 

[Mark101 536]

54 minutes ago, EPV said:

differences between good, great and low then sorry

/\/\/\/\

This.  Except, I think in most peoples minds Great is better than Good but Priced Low - WTF does that mean, it could mean more than Great or less than Great, so I never aim for that.  In fact, I do what I want but basically:

First 30 days - priced for maximum profit vs. reality

Next 30 days - Sharpen up price

Next 30 days - Further sharpen prices to attract maximum interest

After that - try and recoup costs + a drink

[EPV 631]

I was talking to the rep for my warranty company a day or two ago and he did a little straw poll at Christmas of around ten of his family - Who thinks Great, Good or Low was the best price. Must have been a slow Christmas but in any case, everyone came up with different answers. Now that doesn't account for the nation but it does go to show that a random group of people have no idea what is the lowest price marker, they probably don't really care either. If AT is telling them that its a "good price" then at a moments glance, that sub-consciously does enough to tip them in the direction that they aren't being legged over price wise. They will still chip, still dry their teeth, still say they have seen a cheaper one up the road etc.

[NCS_Pete 0]

2 hours ago, EPV said:

Ok, well you did say above that as the buyer for the firm, you are struggling to find decent cars with a margin after your recon costs. You were offered the advice (good advice imo) that you should look to increase your prices where applicable (the example of the only one in 60 miles being a good example) but you have stated that you prefer to work to a certain marker on AT with the intention of selling the stock quicker, turning more cars etc. Straight out of an AT Masterclass, some good advice in those classes I've found!

As the buyer for the firm, you're no doubt expected to get the cars as cheaply as possible. Someone else presumably is in charge of recon, another in charge of selling and so on. You all have your own difficulties within your roles.

Mr recon says to you "you're paying to much for the stock, by the time I've minted these cars up there isn't enough margin" and you're thinking "what are other dealers doing, I'm thinking we're minting up too much and how can I possibly pay less for the stock when everyone wants it"

Vicious cycle.

As a one man band I don't have these concerns or musings, if when I get a car delivered, it's got a marginal bumper scuff, or an alloy that is on the borders or nibbled/smashed then I just spend the £60 or £40 and get it done. 

But what I do make sure I spend time on, is looking at what my competition is. I try and source cars that I have very little competition and even then I believe I can present better than them and steal the customer who is looking for that make/model/derivative. I try to aim for a price that gets the "good" marker because it does influence buyers but if you think the vast majority have a clue in the differences between good, great and low then sorry, they don't. They still think the cars are over priced, still want to chip, do a deal, get something off. But if I have a car that I know or believe will be popular, and I'm the only one, or one of two, then the marker means nothing to me and I'll put it at £500 above the good price marker.

Don't take this the wrong way but I can see you have been schooled in the AT way, price to 98% of market, turn more stock quickly so you can rinse and repeat etc. Maybe you think that it's the only way, the best way etc but I don't think it is. This is coming from someone who is a complete AT nut. I use all their tools, speak weekly with their performance partners and sidekicks and have been to a couple of master classes. 

I think you need to have a word with whoever sets your prices and ask them to stop being so lazy and just pricing to 98% of the market and do some proper research into what your competition is, for each car and price it accordingly. There are ways to increase margin, add value etc and cutting costs or standards isn't the way imo. Not for what I sell anyway. 

You cannot physically reduce the price of buying cars, You are doing your bit by as you say, scouring the internet and working hard to find the gems. Whoever does your pricing is being lazy and not putting in as much effort imo.

Good luck either way mate.

I agree entirely with you mate. 

Thanks for such a detailed response and definitely some good points to take away there. I think maybe i'll throw some of these into the next meeting and see what answers i get. 

 

Thanks appreciated.  

[david gott 58]

Price it right sell overnight!!! Don’t get too over influenced with what they say at the Autotrader master classes, most of the time if you sell it overnight, it’s been too cheap and your doing yourself out of money 

[CCC 31]

9 hours ago, EPV said:

Ok, well you did say above that as the buyer for the firm, you are struggling to find decent cars with a margin after your recon costs. You were offered the advice (good advice imo) that you should look to increase your prices where applicable (the example of the only one in 60 miles being a good example) but you have stated that you prefer to work to a certain marker on AT with the intention of selling the stock quicker, turning more cars etc. Straight out of an AT Masterclass, some good advice in those classes I've found!

As the buyer for the firm, you're no doubt expected to get the cars as cheaply as possible. Someone else presumably is in charge of recon, another in charge of selling and so on. You all have your own difficulties within your roles.

Mr recon says to you "you're paying to much for the stock, by the time I've minted these cars up there isn't enough margin" and you're thinking "what are other dealers doing, I'm thinking we're minting up too much and how can I possibly pay less for the stock when everyone wants it"

Vicious cycle.

As a one man band I don't have these concerns or musings, if when I get a car delivered, it's got a marginal bumper scuff, or an alloy that is on the borders or nibbled/smashed then I just spend the £60 or £40 and get it done. 

But what I do make sure I spend time on, is looking at what my competition is. I try and source cars that I have very little competition and even then I believe I can present better than them and steal the customer who is looking for that make/model/derivative. I try to aim for a price that gets the "good" marker because it does influence buyers but if you think the vast majority have a clue in the differences between good, great and low then sorry, they don't. They still think the cars are over priced, still want to chip, do a deal, get something off. But if I have a car that I know or believe will be popular, and I'm the only one, or one of two, then the marker means nothing to me and I'll put it at £500 above the good price marker.

Don't take this the wrong way but I can see you have been schooled in the AT way, price to 98% of market, turn more stock quickly so you can rinse and repeat etc. Maybe you think that it's the only way, the best way etc but I don't think it is. This is coming from someone who is a complete AT nut. I use all their tools, speak weekly with their performance partners and sidekicks and have been to a couple of master classes. 

I think you need to have a word with whoever sets your prices and ask them to stop being so lazy and just pricing to 98% of the market and do some proper research into what your competition is, for each car and price it accordingly. There are ways to increase margin, add value etc and cutting costs or standards isn't the way imo. Not for what I sell anyway. 

You cannot physically reduce the price of buying cars, You are doing your bit by as you say, scouring the internet and working hard to find the gems. Whoever does your pricing is being lazy and not putting in as much effort imo.

Good luck either way mate.

I agree entirely with you mate. 

Thanks. Useful tips for us too. Less is more is the plan for this year  and try to focus more on stuff we’d like ourselves.