vw polo 1.2 Refunding a customer

[It's me 615]

Just now, Selfy trader said:

I certainly am not ignoring your point and am trying to treat this fairly, like I’ve said previously, if I have to give the punter a refund il have to, however I don’t want to just bend over when threatened

i never ever said give a refund

i said see what the fault is and decide your actions

remember its a 3 pot vw these throw codes for fun

[Selfy trader 1]

Just now, boring dave said:

i never ever said give a refund

i said see what the fault is and decide your actions

remember its a 3 pot vw these throw codes for fun

I certainly won’t buy another my friend, biggest pain in the arse, il keep you all posted as to what the outcome is of the plug in 

[EPV 631]

2 minutes ago, Selfy trader said:

I certainly won’t buy another my friend, biggest pain in the arse, il keep you all posted as to what the outcome is of the plug in 

But I thought the customer insisted on a refund? This is what I was saying earlier, all the facts are needed to offer proper advice. 

So does he want a repair or a refund? 

[Selfy trader 1]

1 minute ago, EPV said:

But I thought the customer insisted on a refund? This is what I was saying earlier, all the facts are needed to offer proper advice. 

So does he want a repair or a refund? 

I’ve given you everything i can at this time Sir

 

here is the exact E-mail:Sorry to tell you this but the VW polo engine light is back on. I do feel that we have given you more than a fair chance to sort this issue. I can only assume it is just bad luck but, we have decided that we would like a refund and return the car back to you ASAP. 

I’m sorry it has come to this and I do appreciate all of your efforts to sort this ongoing problem. 

Can you please call me tomorrow to discuss the matter?

[It's me 615]

2 minutes ago, EPV said:

But I thought the customer insisted on a refund? This is what I was saying earlier, all the facts are needed to offer proper advice. 

So does he want a repair or a refund? 

the customer can insist on what he wants

its up to the seller at this stage where he wants to go

refund

repair

ignore

like poker you need a good hand

ie you hold all the right cards before making a move

oh and i know nowt about poker

2 minutes ago, Selfy trader said:

I’ve given you everything i can at this time Sir

 

here is the exact E-mail:Sorry to tell you this but the VW polo engine light is back on. I do feel that we have given you more than a fair chance to sort this issue. I can only assume it is just bad luck but, we have decided that we would like a refund and return the car back to you ASAP. 

I’m sorry it has come to this and I do appreciate all of your efforts to sort this ongoing problem. 

Can you please call me tomorrow to discuss the matter?

nicely crafted words and succinct

the guy isnt stupid is he

 

[Selfy trader 1]

13 hours ago, boring dave said:

the customer can insist on what he wants

its up to the seller at this stage where he wants to go

refund

repair

ignore

like poker you need a good hand

ie you hold all the right cards before making a move

oh and i know nowt about poker

nicely crafted words and succinct

the guy isnt stupid is he

 

He certainly isn’t, and is extremely vocal with his opinion 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Selfy trader

[EPV 631]

2 minutes ago, boring dave said:

the customer can insist on what he wants

its up to the seller at this stage where he wants to go

refund

repair

ignore

like poker you need a good hand

ie you hold all the right cards before making a move

oh and i know nowt about poker

Which is what I asked OP initially 

OP, again, what do you want? A quiet life or do you want to be putting this customer on the back foot and in control of the situation, even if that means more headache and possibly a court appearance? 

[Selfy trader 1]

1 minute ago, EPV said:

Which is what I asked OP initially 

OP, again, what do you want? A quiet life or do you want to be putting this customer on the back foot and in control of the situation, even if that means more headache and possibly a court appearance? 

Think il call citizens advice tomorrow, hear from them, see what they say, if I have to refund I will make sure it’s fair to me aswell, I’d love to fight this, but I think he will make my life hell, really appreciate your help EPV, genuinely have taught this young aspiring car dealer a few things haha, will let you know the outcome 

[It's me 615]

1 minute ago, Selfy trader said:

Think il call citizens advice tomorrow, hear from them, see what they say, if I have to refund I will make sure it’s fair to me aswell, I’d love to fight this, but I think he will make my life hell, really appreciate your help EPV, genuinely have taught this young aspiring car dealer a few things haha, will let you know the outcome 

citizens advice are a waste of time

they nearly cost me a classic many years ago with bad advice

steer clear of do gooding jobs worths

[Selfy trader 1]

Just now, boring dave said:

citizens advice are a waste of time

they nearly cost me a classic many years ago with bad advice

steer clear of do gooding jobs worths

Oh maybe not then, will review my advice from all of you, many many thanks!

 

[EPV 631]

Just now, Selfy trader said:

Think il call citizens advice tomorrow, hear from them, see what they say, if I have to refund I will make sure it’s fair to me aswell, I’d love to fight this, but I think he will make my life hell, really appreciate your help EPV, genuinely have taught this young aspiring car dealer a few things haha, will let you know the outcome 

Citizens advice? Why? They give consumers bad advice, what makes you think you’ll get better advice as a trader?

You still haven’t actually told us what you want to do. 

Quiet life; 

refund less hmrc guidance for 45p per mile. If he rejects reply saying you will diagnose the fault if he returns the car to you and subject to the findings you MAY repair if you’re obliged to do so. 

Noisy life;

Respond saying you won’t be refunding as you’re not legally obliged to do so but you will diagnose the fault if he returns the car to you and subject to the findings you MAY repair if you’re obliged to do so. 

Don’t bother debating anything else. Those are his choices. 

[Selfy trader 1]

2 minutes ago, EPV said:

Citizens advice? Why? They give consumers bad advice, what makes you think you’ll get better advice as a trader?

You still haven’t actually told us what you want to do. 

Quiet life; 

refund less hmrc guidance for 45p per mile. If he rejects reply saying you will diagnose the fault if he returns the car to you and subject to the findings you MAY repair if you’re obliged to do so. 

Noisy life;

Respond saying you won’t be refunding as you’re not legally obliged to do so but you will diagnose the fault if he returns the car to you and subject to the findings you MAY repair if you’re obliged to do so. 

Don’t bother debating anything else. Those are his choices. 

Considering I’m not battle hardened like you lot il probably choose the quiet life, will not be happy doing so but on the plus side...a black polo is a sellable one hahahaha (once fixed)

[EPV 631]

2 minutes ago, Selfy trader said:

Considering I’m not battle hardened like you lot il probably choose the quiet life, will not be happy doing so but on the plus side...a black polo is a sellable one hahahaha (once fixed)

I get the feeling once you tell him he’ll be getting a refund less £1500 (assumptions made on my part there) he won’t be accepting it anyway. So you may not have any choice on the quiet life/noisy life front. 

[Selfy trader 1]

1 minute ago, EPV said:

I get the feeling once you tell him he’ll be getting a refund less £1500 (assumptions made on my part there) he won’t be accepting it anyway. So you may not have any choice on the quiet life/noisy life front. 

That’s true, may then want a fix instead, he isn’t entitled to a ‘full refund’ is he?

[EPV 631]

1 minute ago, Selfy trader said:

That’s true, may then want a fix instead, he isn’t entitled to a ‘full refund’ is he?

I kind of feel like this is going round in circles mate. To be fair you’ve had a lot to take in. Read the thread again in the morning. 

IMO he isn’t entitled to a refund at all. If you do make an offer it will be to suit you not him (quiet life) 

If he mellows and wants a fix then tell him to bring the car back to you, you will diagnose and depending on the diagnoses you MAY repair but if it’s down to wear and tear you will not repair and he’s on his own. 

I do agree with Dave here on the point that if you do get to the diagnosing the fault stage you need to have good evidence that the new fault isn’t the previous one resurfacing. That’s important. 

Pretty much pointless looking past that at this stage who knows how it will go for you. 

Incidentally there’s nothing wrong with something along the lines of Nick’s letter but if you want to be covering your arse in the event of going long haul on this then you need to know the correct way to cover yourself imo. 

[Selfy trader 1]

12 hours ago, EPV said:

I kind of feel like this is going round in circles mate. To be fair you’ve had a lot to take in. Read the thread again in the morning. 

IMO he isn’t entitled to a refund at all. If you do make an offer it will be to suit you not him (quiet life) 

If he mellows and wants a fix then tell him to bring the car back to you, you will diagnose and depending on the diagnoses you MAY repair but if it’s down to wear and tear you will not repair and he’s on his own. 

I do agree with Dave here on the point that if you do get to the diagnosing the fault stage you need to have good evidence that the new fault isn’t the previous one resurfacing. That’s important. 

Pretty much pointless looking past that at this stage who knows how it will go for you. 

Incidentally there’s nothing wrong with something along the lines of Nick’s letter but if you want to be covering your arse in the event of going long haul on this then you need to know the correct way to cover yourself imo. 

This is the most helpful post yet, the punter is certainly throwing his cards at me. il re-read tomorrow and certainly keep you guys in the loop (should you care haha) yes I understand that completely, need some concrete evidence it isn’t the previous fault, hey ho...could be a brake light switch knowing VW ahahaha

Edited September 24, 2018 by Selfy trader

[EPV 631]

Good luck mate, you seem to be trying to do the right thing by the car and customer and you’ve been unlucky and now the customer is trying to lead you by the nose. 

I think everyone on here wants to see you come out with a good result. 

[Selfy trader 1]

2 minutes ago, EPV said:

Good luck mate, you seem to be trying to do the right thing by the car and customer and you’ve been unlucky and now the customer is trying to lead you by the nose. 

I think everyone on here wants to see you come out with a good result. 

You got it mate, like you said I don’t think he’ll take too kindly to a reduced refund, I’m certainly trying to avoid situations like this, however it’s an occupational hazard isn’t it, I sincerely thank you and everyone else for your solid advice, il do my best

 

many thanks indeed

Tom

[Tom 164]

The first reply on this thread is what I would do, don't get pushed over. 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

9 hours ago, boring dave said:

citizens advice are a waste of time

they nearly cost me a classic many years ago with bad advice

steer clear of do gooding jobs worths

Agreed CAB are useless. 

[Selfy trader 1]

48 minutes ago, tradex said:

Some very helpful advice here, I'll add:

1/ why are you dealing with this guy, he isn't your customer, he didn't buy a car from you, his daughter did....unless I missed something? 

2/ its a messy one this, get control back and get it returned to site, diagnose the fault using your mechanic, then take it from there....anything else and you're on the backfoot.....maybe a spark plug, coil pack, camsensor, could be a valve, chain or ring pack on ascending order of cost, these engines are horrors, but you don't know......for all you know it could have diesel in the tank, you simply don't know, so take the guesswork out of it. Make yourself look reasonable, but without looking to be a mug, everything in writing so that if.... 

3/ small claims court......the magistrate's idea of the law of the land and what is reasonable is HIS idea of the law of the land and what is reasonable. He sits there just as layman to decide what's reasonable between these two parties from the info he has in front of him, and depending on his mood that day......which is dependent on his previous golf round, and what he thinks of car dealers in general on that particular day....and if his Merc has just been for new tyres at 200 quid a corner at Quick Fit you are doomed. 

Legal niceties are for courts higher up the ladder.....been there, got the cap n T shirt. 

 

Good luck

PS whom paid the repair upfront for the ECU.....did he pay then you refunded, or you paid directly...just to muddy the waters but will add to the discussion. 

I allowed his VW specialist to Supply & fit the ECU, they just sent me the bill 

[trade vet 702]

Hi Selfi

You are getting some good advice.Depending what mileage has been done you should negotiate out of this with not too much damage.One thing,if you want to stick around in this industry,you are going to get a lot more of this.Get this one sorted and there will be another one waiting to happen.

[Selfy trader 1]

21 minutes ago, trade vet said:

Hi Selfi

You are getting some good advice.Depending what mileage has been done you should negotiate out of this with not too much damage.One thing,if you want to stick around in this industry,you are going to get a lot more of this.Get this one sorted and there will be another one waiting to happen.

Thanks, I understand, just my first major warranty claim bust up since I’ve started, so flying a tad blind here haha, waiting to hear back from the specialist regarding wether this is the same fault or completely different fault code that has thrown the EML on

[Nick M.K. 574]

56 minutes ago, tradex said:

Ahh, then you paid for the repair, he has nothing to do with it, if the repair is faulty.

He paid the specialist that was chosen by the customer, not his own garage. 

Personally if I cover a warranty repair that was not carried out by MY trusted garage but by one that the customer specifically chose locally for convenience I would send them to deal with "their" garage directly in the event of the exact same fault occuring three months down the line. That garage could've taken a water ingressed ECU out, dried it with a hair dryer for 20 minutes, sent the OP a bill for a few hundred pounds worth of "Full ECU refurbishment" and laughed all the way to the bank. 

[EPV 631]

I imagine what Tradex is getting at is the contract here for the ECU is between OP and the garage. If it were between the billy and garage then OP could just refer the billy to the garage he chose as it’s someone else’s repair, or words to that effect.