Which price guide is best?

[colacharlie 0]

Hello all.

Ive been trading a while and just using my knowledge of prices to buy stock but i know its time to purchase an official guide- so what do you recommend? Is this the site i should purchase from   https://www.cap-hpi.com/products-and-services/black-book-used-car-values   or somewhere/ something else?

[Mistermuttley 19]

I dont use cap or glasses, for me the best way to price a car is to find the same model,same spec and mileage on autotrader and ebay.

I'll then value it according to what other tradrs are actually pricing them for. I find cap retail figures manheim put out are generally above what traders are actually selling the cars for.

[Nick M.K. 574]

I use CAP and do my valuations through the HPI trade website. I have a package which includes a certain number of checks and valuations. 

[colacharlie 0]

Have you got a link for that Nick to make sure i go to the right site?

MisterM - i do the same tbh but it would be nice to have an online service i can refer to on my phone as cars go through the ring just so i can be more certain i'm not paying over the odds.

[Mistermuttley 19]

Charlie , i just have the autotrader app on my phone, it takes about 1 minute to narrow down your comparable car. If you get cap or something else let me know what u think about it

 

[Nick M.K. 574]

https://www.cap-hpi.com/

There is a contact form to complete here for them to get in touch and open you an account. 

http://extras.cap-hpi.com/caphpicheckcta

[Mistermuttley 19]

Whats the cost for the this nick?

 

[EPV 631]

1 hour ago, colacharlie said:

Have you got a link for that Nick to make sure i go to the right site?

MisterM - i do the same tbh but it would be nice to have an online service i can refer to on my phone as cars go through the ring just so i can be more certain i'm not paying over the odds.

Work retail back. Don’t bother with guides. Some cars go way over some way under. Find something that has a demand and price it accordingly. 

[NOACROSS 414]

As above. There’s various free ones:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-valuation

https://hpivaluations.com/

and We Buy Any Car is painless enough for a CAP average price  

...and I’ve not bothered with a paid for guide for years. Also, most auction houses give CAP figures with the listing. 

Edited July 17, 2018 by NOACROSS

[EPV 631]

Never understood where they get cap retail from either? 

[David Ayers 171]

1 hour ago, EPV said:

Never understood where they get cap retail from either? 

Don't they just pull a figure out of a hat?

[metcars 397]

Both CAP or Glasses are no longer fit for purpose

[Nick M.K. 574]

16 minutes ago, met said:

Both CAP or Glasses are no longer fit for purpose

CAP is, more than ever.

When WBAC, WWAC etc use it to buy (and by extension - the general public when they sell) and the big auction houses use it to sell with auction volumes bigger than ever, I can't see how we can ignore it. 

As other people above mentioned - AT's automatic price tools and especially those by CarGurus are so mickey mouse that sometimes give me a £2K difference on a £7K car. 

If you use CAP and don't adjust for optional extras it will never look right to you on bigger prestige cars. 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Nick M.K.

[EPV 631]

10 minutes ago, Nick M.K. said:

CAP is, more than ever.

When WBAC, WWAC etc use it to buy (and by extension - the general public when they sell) and the big auction houses use it to sell with auction volumes bigger than ever, I can't see how we can ignore it. 

As other people above mentioned - AT's automatic price tools and especially those by CarGurus are so mickey mouse that sometimes give me a £2K difference on a £7K car. 

If you use CAP and don't adjust for optional extras it will never look right to you on bigger prestige cars. 

 

 

So where do cap get their retail prices from? CURRENT AUCTION PRICES RETAIL. Which is it? Retail or auction? 

[Nick M.K. 574]

3 minutes ago, twerp said:

The thing is, what WBAC quote and what they finally offer are miles apart.

Absolutely, as long as everyone knows that WBAC's initial valuation is between CAP Average and CAP Below and prices accordingly. 

2 minutes ago, EPV said:

So where do cap get their retail prices from? CURRENT AUCTION PRICES RETAIL. Which is it? Retail or auction? 

To quote them: "We analyse more retail advertised prices every day than anyone else to make sure we truly reflect the market"

I assume this to mean that they have "robot algorithms" that go through retail adverts. 

[EPV 631]

6 minutes ago, Nick M.K. said:

Absolutely, as long as everyone knows that WBAC's initial valuation is between CAP Average and CAP Below and prices accordingly. 

To quote them: "We analyse more retail advertised prices every day than anyone else to make sure we truly reflect the market"

I assume this to mean that they have "robot algorithms" that go through retail adverts. 

I assume it means it’s a load of old hot air personally. No way of proving or disproving either way.  For me, AT’s prices are right more often than not. It’s the largest auto market place in the UK. Even if CAP did take eBay, Motors et all all of them together still don’t make up AT’s dominance. 

[NOACROSS 414]

4 minutes ago, twerp said:

WBAC have started to provide value closer to Cap Clean on £10k cars IME

Yeah. Same here. Between that, the free AT one and the free Hpi/CAP one, it’s more than enough to make a decision.  It’s just a guide after all and as has been said above: nothing beats looking at what similar are being advertised for.  

That and your experience of course. Being the cheapest is usually pointless anyway. 

[metcars 397]

4 minutes ago, NOACROSS said:

Yeah. Same here. Between that, the free AT one and the free Hpi/CAP one, it’s more than enough to make a decision.  It’s just a guide after all and as has been said above: nothing beats looking at what similar are being advertised for.  

That and your experience of course. Being the cheapest is usually pointless anyway. 

Obviously with the usual caveats regarding what you sell and where you're based, I hardly ever use guides to price sale cars, mostly just research the market. I think it's just a part of the job now?

Perhaps the title of this thread should have been "could you survive without CAP"

[Nick M.K. 574]

25 minutes ago, twerp said:

WBAC have started to provide value closer to Cap Clean on £10k cars IME

Yes, agree, their prices also depend on the numbers of auction stock so when their own stock at BCA reduces their prices increase. 

12 minutes ago, met said:

Perhaps the title of this thread should have been "could you survive without CAP"

My personal answer to this would be "I could, but I hope I don't have to".

[Dave2302 387]

colacharlie,

Right off the bat I'll tell you my sales are a total different ball game...................But.................

Back to basics ..................

Listen to the advice given by guys who sell far more cars than I do, BUT.....................

Apply the "AREA" equation, so look at what xyz is selling for what $$$, £££, YEN, etc, (it don't matter), in your area ...................

Then buy it stupidly low and sell it for high margin, you won't go wrong.

If you're looking for a guide that will suddenly make you a billionaire overnight, then forget it, go sell golf balls to golf addicts etc ................

You simply cannot say that, (for example), you are in London so a 2010 Range Rover will sell for x and the trade price is y so I'll make z profit .....................

Glasses Guide, CAP etc used to apply years and years ago, but in this day and age it doesn't .................. Simples 

If we all did that we'd all have gone skint long ago, and anyone who's been on here a while "should" "maybe" "might do" tell you the same if they're being honest................

You're the man making the deal, just make sure you're the man "maxing out" the GP

HTH, 

[Dave2302 387]

1 hour ago, Nick M.K. said:

I assume this to mean that they have "robot algorithms" that go through retail adverts. 

Yes Nick, I would totally agree with your assumption but algorithms don't work in the real world, (as I think you know),  .................... ever tried bunging a monkey at "Bit Coin" 

The whole problem is something like the "World has gone mad", well at least the UK lol.

FE, you can't sell a 10k Car to a Shop Assistant in a depressed area, 'cause he simply can't afford it.  A Shop Assistant in Greenwich could probably afford it on HP.

But as a Dealer, if you know your area, you can buy the same Car from, say another shop worker, for a lot less, and then valet it and give it a freshen up, a service & new MOT and sell it to the original Shop Assistant for a decent profit

Location location location, know the locale

 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

1 hour ago, EPV said:

I assume it means it’s a load of old hot air personally. No way of proving or disproving either way.  For me, AT’s prices are right more often than not. It’s the largest auto market place in the UK. Even if CAP did take eBay, Motors et all all of them together still don’t make up AT’s dominance. 

Agreed, then retail back. 

[Area 51 33]

Would anyone agree the AT algorithms is probably tweaked to give valuations dependent on location too? It'll know your location and it'll draw on prices in that area for similar vehicles for sale/days on sale.. I'm pretty sure they can get it to study any variety of data it is given.. Its knowing just how much data and what details AT capture.. that info is probably worth more than their business premises put together!!

Imagine if their computer knew a particular make/model was sticking in on region, the could boost sales (force-ably) by reducing the prices it gives in private/retail sales prices..

The AT data has to be worth a lot more than CAP/Glasses these days.. AT is driven by live / current data of whats on sale, being valued and being taken off sale (sold).. CAP and Glasses can only buy this data in..

[Arfur Dealy 823]

15 minutes ago, Area 51 said:

Would anyone agree the AT algorithms is probably tweaked to give valuations dependent on location too? It'll know your location and it'll draw on prices in that area for similar vehicles for sale/days on sale.. I'm pretty sure they can get it to study any variety of data it is given.. Its knowing just how much data and what details AT capture.. that info is probably worth more than their business premises put together!!

Imagine if their computer knew a particular make/model was sticking in on region, the could boost sales (force-ably) by reducing the prices it gives in private/retail sales prices..

The AT data has to be worth a lot more than CAP/Glasses these days.. AT is driven by live / current data of whats on sale, being valued and being taken off sale (sold).. CAP and Glasses can only buy this data in..

Yes, but us knows nothing of true sale price. It’s fundamentally flawed. 

[Area 51 33]

1 minute ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Yes, but us knows nothing of true sale price. It’s fundamentally flawed. 

Agree, Same would be the case for ebay then, as they never get to know the sale price unless its an auction....

 

Speaking of which, this means auction houses (BCA et el) sales price data would be forth a mint to us.. they already shift between different auction houses where they know they will fetch better money.. a batch from Northern Ireland came through today, ran out the door at at CAP clean ++ Jayzuz

Saw a mini at the block today, it sold for £5.7k with the tip, just had a look for later in the weekn and the same mini is now on a buy it now with BCA for £6k excluding fees.. These guys must be rigging it.... shock horror