used cars 30 days return policy

[KARLOS1982 0]

Hello There, 

I would appreciate if you could advise me regarding the 30 days reject period....

Long story short, i have sold 03 CRV 2.0 vtec auto and shortly after the sale I have received letter from buyer stating that vehicle is misfiring and he he is about to change spark plugs and few bits to try to fix it himself. He hasn`t asked for refund or repair, only registered fault with me and advise me that he is going to have fault diagnosed if he can`t fix it and we will advise me about it......

I haven`t replied to his letter, since he hasn`t ask me to taky any action and waited. 5 weeks later 2. letter comes through, where he is demanding full refund and threading me with small court thing unless I respond within 2 weeks....

I am not trying to get away from it, just want to know where i stand regarding the refund policy since he is asking for refund after 6 weeks from original purchase date, regardless the fact he made me aware of the fault earlier......

Am I right to refused the full refund, since he asked for it after 30 days from day of purchase and shall I try to repair car first? if so can i ask him to come down to my local garage (bloke lives 200 miles away) or do i need to sort it repair somewhere close to him? 

Worth saying I do my own warranties and until now it all worked fine. Usually I would issue refund straight away but the guy is a real pain and i took his old car as a px which turned up to be real lemon and made a loss against px price.... 

Thank you in advance for your advice. 

Many thanks Karlos

[Autolink100 34]

Whats actually wrong with it ? It's going to have to be something pretty serious if he's going to try rejecting a 15 year old car

[KARLOS1982 0]

Hi he hasn`t provide me with the diagnostic ( I dont think he has done any), its a 2.0 VTEC which In my own opinion its one of the most reliable engines out there... I reckon if spark plugs didn`t fix it....possible coil pack or cat convertor....

first time I having issue with petrol Honda....

[Autolink100 34]

If he wants to reject it he has to tell you why! I am presuming a miss fire. You need to know the facts before you can really move forward with him. Tell him to provide some evidence of the fault, garage report etc and you can go from there but personally i wouldn't lose any sleep over him. He's bought a 15 year old banger which is probably close to end of life

[Arfur Dealy 823]

You shouldn’t of ignored his first letter, you should of writen back requesting (as per your PDI) he returns it for you to fully inspect with a reminder stating clearly  “wear n tear” expected of a 15 year vehicle is specifically excluded from the CRA....

Its amazing how many chancers disappear. 

[trade vet 702]

28 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

You shouldn’t of ignored his first letter, you should of writen back requesting (as per your PDI) he returns it for you to fully inspect with a reminder stating clearly  “wear n tear” expected of a 15 year vehicle is specifically excluded from the CRA....

Its amazing how many chancers disappear. 

Arfur is spot on...,unfortunately Karlos you are probably negligent in this instance.You will just have to do the best you can...I know,it’s not fair..!

[KARLOS1982 0]

Hi guys, thank your replys, 

I know what you saying regarding the reply after 1. letter, but this is what the guy wrote in first letter. 

" I am going to have fuel filter changed and I will check the connections on the injector rail to see if these are corroded however, I am registering my issue with the car before exercising my right to have the vehicle repaired by you under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

If I cannot find the fault then I shall take it to a garage and pay for a full diagnosis. Once I know the problem then I will inform you of this"

So after reading this in his first letter I think I was right to just sit down and wait, hoping fuel filter cures the problem, because he hasn`t ask me to take any action......well that`s the way I understood it.

[EPV 631]

1 hour ago, KARLOS1982 said:

Hi guys, thank your replys, 

I know what you saying regarding the reply after 1. letter, but this is what the guy wrote in first letter. 

" I am going to have fuel filter changed and I will check the connections on the injector rail to see if these are corroded however, I am registering my issue with the car before exercising my right to have the vehicle repaired by you under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

If I cannot find the fault then I shall take it to a garage and pay for a full diagnosis. Once I know the problem then I will inform you of this"

So after reading this in his first letter I think I was right to just sit down and wait, hoping fuel filter cures the problem, because he hasn`t ask me to take any action......well that`s the way I understood it.

What you should have done, easy to say with hindsight, is tell him to bring the car to you for diagnosing and repair. Allowing him to play parts darts with it muddies the water. 

There is no premise to “register an issue” before exercising his right to repair under the CRA. If there’s an issue, that isn’t wear and tear and was present at the point of sale, he has a right to repair. He doesn’t have the right to fuck around trying all sorts and when that fails chuck it back at you. 

I’d say as it stands, you’re best off fixing the issue and putting it down to experience. He sounds like a pain in arse elect  to be honest. 

[It's me 615]

i wouldn't be worried unduly

i had a customer ring me about 7 weeks ago with the exact same problem and they had changed plugs coils etc without my say so

i asked them what a scan of the vehicle showed and they said they hadn't done one

i told them to stop playing parts darts and get a scan done basically as a starter for ten

after the phone call i remembered that they told me they have a business repairing lawn mowers and i wonder if they filled the car i sold with old lawnmower (free) petrol as most people wont accept that modern petrol goes off very fast

he didn't give you the opportunity to inspect the vehicle but took on technical repairs himself without professional advice either from yourself or a local garage so you have no idea if he created the problem and now he's had his fingers in the pie you cant reasonably be expected to refund him

i would ask him to return the vehicle at his expense so you can have a professional look at the vehicle at your expense only and change your invoice to specifically add that any complaint must first be addressed for you to have the opportunity to inspect before any third parties or the owner can have a twiddle of any knobs

or see him in court if you have built up a slush fund of 3g

[Arfur Dealy 823]

7 hours ago, s and b said:

“parts darts “

Fantastic S&B. I’m gonna save that one in the memory banks 

[sparky 274]

9 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Fantastic S&B. I’m gonna save that one in the memory banks 

You and me both. I do like that.

[KARLOS1982 0]

Thanks for your responses. question is he is he entitled for full refund when he made me aware about the fault within 30 days or can I charge him percentage for using the car because he decided to  reject the car after 30 days? Many thanks

[MattR 177]

Hi Karlos

I didnt think he could from your original post, but then you added a fuller description later. If you want the absolute legal answer, you may need someone like lawgistics. But if youre in a court of law, it may not go your way anyway

[EPV 631]

43 minutes ago, KARLOS1982 said:

Thanks for your responses. question is he is he entitled for full refund when he made me aware about the fault within 30 days or can I charge him percentage for using the car because he decided to  reject the car after 30 days? Many thanks

Did you carry out a full properly worded PDI and did he sign it. If not, you’re exposed. If you did, he has to prove the fault was there at the point of sale. It’s not as simple as “is he entitled to a refund” without us knowing the exact circumstances. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by EPV

[EPV 631]

4 minutes ago, tradex said:

The guy sounds like a twat, refund and move on

Entirely my sentiments. The waters have been muddied by allowing him to record the fault prior to him dicking around with the car. There’s no provision for that under the cra. It’s either a fault, which means a refund or repair (dependent on whether the fault was present at the point of sale or not, which in itself is reliant on a properly worded PDI) or its not a fault, in which case he’s messing around changing bits of a car he might not need to. 

The situation is unclear so the best thing to do is to refund the bloke, fix the issue (if there even is an issue) and sell the car to someone else. 

[Arthur thicken 13]

On 18/03/2018 at 10:32 AM, KARLOS1982 said:

Hello There, 

I would appreciate if you could advise me regarding the 30 days reject period....

Long story short, i have sold 03 CRV 2.0 vtec auto and shortly after the sale I have received letter from buyer stating that vehicle is misfiring and he he is about to change spark plugs and few bits to try to fix it himself. He hasn`t asked for refund or repair, only registered fault with me and advise me that he is going to have fault diagnosed if he can`t fix it and we will advise me about it......

I haven`t replied to his letter, since he hasn`t ask me to taky any action and waited. 5 weeks later 2. letter comes through, where he is demanding full refund and threading me with small court thing unless I respond within 2 weeks....

I am not trying to get away from it, just want to know where i stand regarding the refund policy since he is asking for refund after 6 weeks from original purchase date, regardless the fact he made me aware of the fault earlier......

Am I right to refused the full refund, since he asked for it after 30 days from day of purchase and shall I try to repair car first? if so can i ask him to come down to my local garage (bloke lives 200 miles away) or do i need to sort it repair somewhere close to him? 

Worth saying I do my own warranties and until now it all worked fine. Usually I would issue refund straight away but the guy is a real pain and i took his old car as a px which turned up to be real lemon and made a loss against px price.... 

Thank you in advance for your advice. 

Many thanks Karlos

He has to give you the opportunity to fix it, you then return the car, if the problem re occurs he can ask for a refund, less usage, I’ve done this so have experience of it. If he wants his money back Tell him you will refund him under the terms of the consumer rights act 2015, ask him if he’s happy with that, if he is then he has to return the car to you, let’s say he’s paid £1500 for the car and had it 40 days, you can deduct usage at a daily rate, in this case say £25 per day which comes to £1,000. If the car is in the same condition as you sold it that’s fine, if there’s damage you can deduct for that also. You have 30 days to pay him from the day he returns it. I’ve done this, it’s the law.

[EPV 631]

4 hours ago, Arthur thicken said:

He has to give you the opportunity to fix it, you then return the car, if the problem re occurs he can ask for a refund, less usage, I’ve done this so have experience of it. If he wants his money back Tell him you will refund him under the terms of the consumer rights act 2015, ask him if he’s happy with that, if he is then he has to return the car to you, let’s say he’s paid £1500 for the car and had it 40 days, you can deduct usage at a daily rate, in this case say £25 per day which comes to £1,000. If the car is in the same condition as you sold it that’s fine, if there’s damage you can deduct for that also. You have 30 days to pay him from the day he returns it. I’ve done this, it’s the law.

Sort of.

He can ask for a refund straight away, up to 30 days. It would be down to the dealer to prove that the fault did not exist at the point of sale. If he can't, the customer is in a much stronger position. A properly worded PDI, with a proper worded receipt, makes it nigh on impossible for the customer to prove the fault was there at the point of sale and thus, has to give you a chance to repair it. 

[KARLOS1982 0]

thank you very much for all the responses, 

just wanted to give you a update, sent him a letter offering him have the car inspected and repair in my local garage, who does all my guarantee work.....hasn` done that but he had finally diagnosed the fault by different garage and its a worn camshaft lobes.......ok you may think thats bad, but we are talking about 15 years old car with 118000 miles at the point of sale....so in my opinion wear and tear....anyway.I was thinking about going down the road and giving him the refund and move on.....

but than i noticed that on the report from the garage.. mileage recorded is nearly 123 000 miles, guy done nearly 5 k in the last 2 months and judging from the fact, that car is showing taxed and fault was diagnosed in the garage 60 miles away from the his home, in my own opinion car is safe to drive from A to B and fit  purpose considering the age, mileage and price paid.....so I have decided to play hard ball, if the guy would have sorn the car and kept it on his driveway that would be a different kind of fish....

after reading some horrible stories about small court cases......I am about to offer him refund, deducting the usage   (cant see him accepting it though) and let see if he wants to take it all the way down to court, let be it....I am sure I will stand a chance considering 15 years old its proving fully roadworthy and fault is down to engine wear.....

what do you think guys?

[Arfur Dealy 823]

If you have a signed PDI and invoice stating the car must be returned then stand your ground. If you don’t, simply pay him off and learn from the experience. You have to do the job right and cover yourself. 

[Mojo121 229]

8 hours ago, KARLOS1982 said:

thank you very much for all the responses, 

just wanted to give you a update, sent him a letter offering him have the car inspected and repair in my local garage, who does all my guarantee work.....hasn` done that but he had finally diagnosed the fault by different garage and its a worn camshaft lobes.......ok you may think thats bad, but we are talking about 15 years old car with 118000 miles at the point of sale....so in my opinion wear and tear....anyway.I was thinking about going down the road and giving him the refund and move on.....

but than i noticed that on the report from the garage.. mileage recorded is nearly 123 000 miles, guy done nearly 5 k in the last 2 months and judging from the fact, that car is showing taxed and fault was diagnosed in the garage 60 miles away from the his home, in my own opinion car is safe to drive from A to B and fit  purpose considering the age, mileage and price paid.....so I have decided to play hard ball, if the guy would have sorn the car and kept it on his driveway that would be a different kind of fish....

after reading some horrible stories about small court cases......I am about to offer him refund, deducting the usage   (cant see him accepting it though) and let see if he wants to take it all the way down to court, let be it....I am sure I will stand a chance considering 15 years old its proving fully roadworthy and fault is down to engine wear.....

what do you think guys?

I think you sound like you're trying your best to dodge it when really you know what the outcome will be. I get it. No one likes refunding.

In your first post you said "shortly after" he took the vehicle he registered the fault with you. Therefore it wasn't caused in the 5,000 miles he's done, so that's the wear and tear argument out, I think.

Personally, and we've badly managed a few complaint, I'd do what you suggest and offer a refund minus some for the miles he's used it and put it down as a lesson just to get the car back for inspection whenever a genuine sounding fault like this appears not long after sale.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Mojo121

[andymc1973 199]

I refund and move on with good grace, hard but it gets rid of the problem

[EPV 631]

6 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

If you have a signed PDI and invoice stating the car must be returned then stand your ground. If you don’t, simply pay him off and learn from the experience. You have to do the job right and cover yourself. 

+1. 

If I may, speak frankly, you have made a bit of a mess of this. Unless I have got this wrong, you have not done a properly worded pdi, you have not issued a properly worded receipt and you have allowed the customer to chuck various parts at the car and have whoever he wants diagnose the problem. If this went to court you’d lose, badly. It’s not just about proving the car is roadworthy. 

Put it down to experience, refund the bloke in full, apologise, try and save some reputation. Get the car back, fix the fault, sort your pdi and receipt policy/paperwork out and sell the car to someone else. 

[AVON VALLEY 3]

If the customer has put 5k on the car in 2 months it is unreasonable for him to expect to drive for free,you can charge him a usage charge.Get the car back in and have it checked out,it has to be a fundamental problem.you know what they say 'Their is no worst liar than a used car buyer" get the car back in and take control of the situation .