DVLA update AT LAST! email reply received today

[jimreidvehicle 255]

As you all know I sent an email back on the 18th of August to clarify some points, here is their reply only this afternoon!!! Hope it helps.

You can comment on this using the forum.

AT LAST SOME CLARIFICATION .................A LONG AWAITED REPLY TO MY E-MAIL HOPE THIS HELPS.................

Jim,

Apologies for the delay in replying.

Please see response below.

I have previously emailed you with questions as spokesman for a Car Dealer Forum called Twitter Car Dealers http://twittercardealers.ning.com/ , however as October the 1st is nearly upon us I would like to gain some clarification on some points that don’t seem to be noted anywhere on the DVLA website or in any previous e-mail correspondence. I would be very gratefully if you can e-mail clarification of these points below:-

• • Can you please confirm that the process by traders will not change when it comes to taking back a part exchange vehicle in terms of paperwork, currently we would assist the car owner by filling in section 9 (the yellow slip) of the V5c with our details and getting the customer and ourselves to sign the appropriate parts and our details, so the car can be ‘transferred to trade’ or ‘in trade’, rumour has it that instead of this the customer would have to SORN the vehicle. Can you clarify please?

I can confirm that this is correct – the process for disposal/disposal to trade will not change and should remain as is from 1st October. On receipt of the disposal notification an automatic refund of vehicle tax will be issued to the previous keeper on record/Direct Debit details automatically cancelled. If the registered keeper is disposing of the vehicle into trade then no SORN is required. From the 20th October the process of disposing vehicles into the trade will also become electronic and further communications will be issued by the project nearer to the time. A SORN should only be made by a keeper who is in possession of a vehicle.

• If a customer decides to purchase his lease/contract hire vehicle that he or she has been running for the last two years at what point does it become the responsibility of the new owner to tax? This is not clear.

As soon as the customer purchases a vehicle and decides to become the registered keeper on DVLA records they must tax it immediately. They do not need to wait for the Registration Certificate (V5C) to be in their name to tax – and they can tax online at www.gov.uk/vehicletax using the V5C/2 section of the V5C, over the telephone on 0300 123 4321or at a from Post Office® branch that deals with vehicle tax.

o If we sell a car that has come back at the beginning of the month and changes hands is the car still road taxed until the end of that month as the previous owner will only get a road tax refund on the whole month’s left on the road tax paid.

No – as soon as the keeper on record (seller) notifies DVLA that they no longer have the vehicle the road tax will expire. The new keeper must tax immediately before driving the vehicle on the road.

o If a Car Dealer is sitting with car’s in stock that have, current and valid road taxes on them what happens on October 1st as these car’s will be ‘in trade’ and have no current owner, who does the road tax rebate go to? As car dealers we have most likely accounted for the value of this tax disc whilst valuing the car, so will we receive the rebate or the last owner or will this money just disappear into the Government coffers?

Any vehicle that is currently in the motor trade with a valid tax disc will continue to be taxed until the vehicle is sold. At the point the vehicle is sold, the current tax will terminate. No refund will be paid where the vehicle is recorded as in the motor trade. For any refund to be issued, there must be a registered keeper held DVLA records. This has been the case since 2009.

o As a car dealer who likes to deliver a first class service to our customers we often road tax our customers new purchases on their behalf can we continue to do this or have the customers to organise payment themselves and road taxing?

Dealers can still continue to tax a vehicle on the customers behalf using the V5C/2 section of the V5C either online at www.gov.uk/vehicletax using the V5C/2 section of the V5C over the telephone on 0300 123 4321 or at a from Post Office® branch that deals with vehicle tax.

o Can you also explain what happens if a customer drops off their car but have lost their V5C, does this mean that they can apply for a new V5C or not as technically they are no longer the owners if they have part exchanged the car, also does this mean because the road tax cannot be redeemed is the car technically still road taxed?

When disposing of a vehicle the customer should hand over the V5C to the dealer. If this is not available they should telephone DVLA or apply on a V62 form (Application for a Registration Certificate) for a duplicate V5C before the sale. Alternatively, if the vehicle sale has already taken place, the customer may notify the sale to DVLA in writing. For further information visit www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration On receipt of the seller’s notification, the vehicle tax will end and an automatic refund/cancellation of DD details (if applicable) will be issued to the name and address details held on DVLA records (the seller).

o Please clarify what happens with cherished transfers when customers are transferring their personal number to another car they have purchased, do both cars have to be on the MID at the same time, does the customer get a full rebate if he is collecting one on the first of the month and part exchanging the other on the same day? Are both cars road taxed and when does the customer expect to see the rebate?

If a customer is transferring a personal number from one vehicle onto a new vehicle, both vehicles must be correctly insured/taxed/SORN declared before the transfer can be processed. On receipt of the disposal details for the previous vehicle an automatic refund of vehicle tax will be issued to the customer details held on DVLA records for any remaining full paid months. The automatic refund should be issued to the customer within 6 weeks.

o Cars that are ‘transferred to trade’ or ‘in trade’ and sitting on car dealer forecourts do they have to be on the MID now, as they cannot be used on the road without a road tax disc, do we just make sure that our Tarde Plates are on the MID?

The motor insurance that was in force for the previous keeper will have been cancelled at the time the vehicle was transferred to the motor trade, regardless of the vehicle tax status. Discussing the terms of motor trade insurance is a matter between you and your insurance company.

Regards

Rhian Powell

Abolition of Tax Discs/Direct Debit Project

ITD | A2 | DVLA | Swansea | SA6 7JL

Twitter: @dvlagovuk

Find out about DVLA's online services at:

www.gov.uk/dvla/nomoretaxdisc

[Andy Entwistle 96]

Thanks Jim, thats a pretty comprehensive post, must have been a long conversation !

 

One question i haven;t seen answered anywhere ( or indeed asked) is.

 

If you can tax a car online using the V5c, what is to stop someone for taxing the car, but not registering a new keeper. I assume there will be some sort of requirement to register the keeper at the same time?

[jimreidvehicle 255]

Andy

there must be something! isn't it a shame that the DVLA haven't educated us dealers with webinars of the new automated system. This was their chance of getting things right a building bridges with the Motortrade and all they have down is muck it up again! Why not ask the people on the coal face, what happens on the coal face?

Jim

Thanks Jim, thats a pretty comprehensive post, must have been a long conversation !

 

One question i haven;t seen answered anywhere ( or indeed asked) is.

 

If you can tax a car online using the V5c, what is to stop someone for taxing the car, but not registering a new keeper. I assume there will be some sort of requirement to register the keeper at the same time?

[Gavin@Rousdon 137]

Andy, the process you describe is one I have used before but using the V5C/2 at a post office. Now the DVLA still say we can tax at the Post Office so I'm guessing that the tax will become invalid in a new keeper isn't registered within a certain time limit. 

 

Seems reading the replies to Jim's questions that they have the power  to make a fully paid Vehicle Tax invalid without giving a refund. 

 

Reading the answers above I can see Cherished Transfers becoming a problem if they a checking both cars are insured, are they really expecting customers to keep there new and old car insured whilst the transfer takes place? Or will we just end up putting the p/x on our MID list to ensure the process works. 

 

Also seems we have a new system for putting vehicles 'In Trade' on the 20th October, 7 weeks time. I'm guessing we will be told on the 19th October in line with the DVLA's communication policy !!!

[GreenGiant 287]

Good grief.

 

As suspected: waaaay too many permutations.

 

Look on the bright side - we've got 3 weeks to run with the new system before they change it!

 

 

 

Heads they win........

[umesh 336]

Well the #DVLA Insisted that "60% of the people are aware of the changes - and 3000 stake holders, Autotrader , HPI , RAC had been consulted " I'm JUST amazed that 'most' of us don't have a clue - i'm only guessing we must be the 40% excluded or simply don't have a clue on this forum or TCD Forum. 

I think 60% are probably aware of going 'paperless' but not knowing the full implications of what is actually happening ! 

I'm still trying to get over the shock of 'stock cars' on forecourts loosing the road tax at the end of the month - WHY ? The duty has been paid by the previous owner or the dealer as part of the deal , all to be wiped away unless the car is registered in the dealers name and the dealer gets a refund when they sell it-  that's simply daylight robbery! Some has done some cleaver maths -getting paid twice for the same car! 

[jimreidvehicle 255]

Gavin

I asked that very question about having both cars insured at the same time to carry out a CT, but believe it or not since Dec 2013 we could get a car taxed at any post office without having valid insurance, it is no longer DVLA or the Post Offices responsibility to check for valid insurance it is the responsibility of the owner and driver of the car to ensure they are suitably insured before driving the car on the public highway.

So for CT's there is no real change, down to the local PO with the green slip to get car road taxed then off with all the paperwork for the CT!!

Jim

Andy, the process you describe is one I have used before but using the V5C/2 at a post office. Now the DVLA still say we can tax at the Post Office so I'm guessing that the tax will become invalid in a new keeper isn't registered within a certain time limit. 

 

Seems reading the replies to Jim's questions that they have the power  to make a fully paid Vehicle Tax invalid without giving a refund. 

 

Reading the answers above I can see Cherished Transfers becoming a problem if they a checking both cars are insured, are they really expecting customers to keep there new and old car insured whilst the transfer takes place? Or will we just end up putting the p/x on our MID list to ensure the process works. 

 

Also seems we have a new system for putting vehicles 'In Trade' on the 20th October, 7 weeks time. I'm guessing we will be told on the 19th October in line with the DVLA's communication policy !!!

[AutocarsHull 7]

Umesh, It is as you rightly say "simply daylight robbery". Firstly, the DVLA stop 'the trade' cashing in valid tax discs a few years ago now, and now we are getting thoroughly turned over again !! If we have cars with valid rfl until say April 2015, how can it be right for this to be invalid with NO REFUND when we sell it after October??  THE DUTY HAS BEEN PAID until the expiry date ! This is purely and simply about money with no regard for the public or trade for that matter, who it just so happens do quite a lot of administration for the dvla. Dusgusting.

[Gavin@Rousdon 137]

Cheers Jim, at least CT's will still be straight(ish)  forward. I'm guessing we need to make sure the customer doesn't log the vehicle as 'In trade' before the transfer is complete and lets hope the new CT forms don't ask for the tax disc serial number.

 

Great work getting the answers Jim, really is a great help

[jimreidvehicle 255]

Gavin

no problem, seemingly the NEW V317's will no longer have the part for serial numbers for tax discs and these forms will only be downloadable from the DVLA website as a pdf, using even more of my paper and ink ;-(

Cheers Jim, at least CT's will still be straight(ish)  forward. I'm guessing we need to make sure the customer doesn't log the vehicle as 'In trade' before the transfer is complete and lets hope the new CT forms don't ask for the tax disc serial number.

 

Great work getting the answers Jim, really is a great help

[Gavin@Rousdon 137]

I wonder how many customers will log their vehicles as 'in trade' using the new online system due out on 20th October before the CT is complete? I wonder how DVLA will handle this??  I will inform my customers that they may lose there private if they do this!!

 

One silver lining, at the least p/x will remain tax'ed for the duration of the CT so can be used as a runabout for a bit !!!

[AutocarsHull 7]

Just wondering whats peoples plans are on the forum as to how they are going to run 'staff cars' going forward once they new rules come in, and existing taxed cars have been sold??

[Wheelerdealer1 91]

I'm dreading that, I guess we will have no choice but to register any car we using as a runabout, or tax it knowing we won't get refunded, hence keeping it for at least 6 months, unlikely though!

[Andy Entwistle 96]

Just wondering whats peoples plans are on the forum as to how they are going to run 'staff cars' going forward once they new rules come in, and existing taxed cars have been sold??

This is the biggest real life change for us i think ...

 

Big Mike is up in arms, he has no idea what he's going to use as a smoker anymore....

[GreenGiant 287]

Have I missed something or has the silence from the RMI, NFDA and SMMT been deafening?

I thought the industry bodies worked on our behalf to promote our cause and get our voices heard.

And yet the DVLA are steamrollering in these changes with no apparent discussions and very little regard and, quite frankly, ripping us off.

Question is, what do we do about it?

[Gavin@Rousdon 137]

The DVLA is a government department and they have identified a way to raise more money, the way it will affect the trade is of no consequence to them. I'm sure the first places they will look when they send an enforcement team out to clamp untaxed cars will roads outside bodyshops, valeters and car dealers. Easy pickings for them and hassle for us. 

 

As for trade bodies you must have noticed they do very little for the small person other then take your money. 

 

Mr Jim Reid from  Aberdeenshire  has communicated the tax charges in one post more then they have in the last 12 months. The DVLA don't care for us much and there is very little that will change that. Our customers are DVLA's customers too, DVLA know they are spending more with us so are happy for us to offer the customer service experience so they don't have too!!

[Wheelerdealer1 91]

Hammer head