used car seller 8 Posted January 6, 2014 would a" freedom of information " request work ? its certainly worth investigating, if not possible then foi the dvla ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreenGiant 287 Posted January 7, 2014 Seriously? Do you mean to tell me that there are some vehicles being registered without an end user? Wow. Who'd have thunk it? This is not news. I've just skipped back through the archives of Trade mag articles and can see this has been banged on about for years. And years. And nobody seems to care. As long as the main dealers keep doing it to pander to the stick-wielding manufacturers, nothing will change. There is only one solution: Everyone has to just say No. But it won't happen. there's too much at stake. The horse is dead, James - stop flogging it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Baggott 227 Posted January 7, 2014 My beef is with the mainstream media - they're reporting that all is rosy, when it's not quite as positive as the figures suggest. As a CAP expert told me yesterday: 'I agree with you that the inflated new car registration (not sales) figures can give a misleading impression that all is rosy in the world when it most certainly is not. The media often use overall registration figures as an economic indicator and if such data ever helped contribute to a rise in my mortgage rate I’d be most upset.' Why is the industry not reporting the truth? And Used Car Seller, unfortunately an FOI would not work with the SMMT as they're not a government organisation. I'm currently talking to the DVLA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wessexboy 4 Posted January 7, 2014 GreenGiant - just because something has been going on for years doesn't make it right. The problem is, many manufacturers use the previous year's stats as a basis for setting targets. So, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, last year's figures are artificially inflated by self regs meaning the new year's targets are set at higher levels than the true market can achieve so guess what happens - more self reg, and so it goes on. Dealers end up with fields full of cars, either paid for, or on expensive funding plans, whilst the manufacturers pat themselves on the back and congratulate each other on their market share.Then the next quarter starts and the whole farce begins again with dealers trying to liquidate stock and manufacturers wanting to know why the new car sales for the quarter have started so slowly. It is short-termism at its worst and the sooner dealers have the balls to say no to the manufacturers the better, unfortunately whilst the manufacturers dangle the carrot of huge bonuses it is unlikely to happen without some serious rattling of the SMMT cage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
umesh 336 Posted January 7, 2014 As we all know its been going on for years and will continue to do so.. Sadly it doesn't reflect the 'true' picture as every tom , dick and harry ( No offence to any T,D,H !) will be coming into my showroom and saying "isn't it GREAT NEWS -BEST EVER YEAR ...." NOT knowing the figures are manipulated ! I suppose on the flip side..IF customers gain the benefits, the dealers win too , don't we? except for the poor ones who have field full of cars that need to be paid , stocking charges etc and lets not forget what effect it has on the 'late' used values ! Every manufacturer is simply buying business ! Lets just have 'correct ' reporting actual sales rather than registrations ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreenGiant 287 Posted January 7, 2014 James, you ask why the industry doesn't report the truth. They do, and always have. Trouble is, as you say, the mainstream media don't listen and will ignore the facts. Maybe they can't handle the truth. It may also depend on who's paying their wages. Wessexboy: I never said it was right. I think its an ugly, insidious practice that, for all the reasons given above, cannot (and will not) be stopped. The short-term bonuses are too high, the long-term penalties for failure to meet targets are even higher and, by the way, there's another transporter outside! Many years ago I was once told by a senior manufacturer exec that they weren't interested in market share... all they wanted was registrations. Nothing seems to have changed. If it (pre-reg) stopped tomorrow, the over-production throughout Europe would put several manufacturers in serious trouble financially if there was nowhere for the product to go. And their respective governments wouldn't be overly happy as they'd probably have to wade in. Although what this industry actually needs is a 'correction' - a bit like the housing market - so the weak can die off and we can then run our businesses based on 'demand pull' rather than 'supply push'. We all know it's unsustainable as it is, but who's going to put their head over the parapet? Just Say No. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
used car seller 8 Posted January 7, 2014 good point by james that folk will think oh great "all is rosy in the world " when its not, robert peston of bbc is suggesting the good figures is due to all the ppi payments people are getting and slapping it down as a depo ! i find the general public arent as daft as the media like to think they are, and quite a few have seen these pre reg cars at knockdown prices advertised in there papers and on forecourts, good luck with the foi on the dvla james, keep us informed. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cornish Guy 45 Posted January 11, 2014 So what are the oldest pre-reg cars out there at the moment. I know of 12 plate Kias Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Baggott 227 Posted January 11, 2014 Where are those 12-plate Kias? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gavin@Rousdon 137 Posted January 11, 2014 I wonder why the local Nissan dealer is advertising 13 plate and 63 plate cars with delivery miles on with massive savings over list price. Maybe 1 or 2 OAP's could have purchased Micra's and given up driving after doing 10 miles in them but 10+ cars??? We all know what goes on but the SMMT have an interest in making a 'buzz' around new car sales. It was the same 10 years ago and will be the same in 10 years time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreenGiant 287 Posted January 14, 2014 Local main (French badge) dealer advertising Jan 14/63 plate in his used stock. What happened to the 90 day rule in the Sale Of New Cars Order I wonder? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Baggott 227 Posted January 14, 2014 They wouldn't be covered by SMMT rule. No dealer pre regs are... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wessexboy 4 Posted January 15, 2014 My understanding is that any vehicle that is registered without a genuine customer, and which the dealer intends to sell within 3 months must be declared as a pre-reg. ThIs of course means the car doesn't count towards targets which defeats the object of the registration in the first place. I have every confidence that all 2,264,737 cars registered last year went straight to an end user, or sat in a storage compound for 90 days - I'm sure none were resold within 3 months, or the manufacturers would have to act....wouldn't they?? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreenGiant 287 Posted January 16, 2014 I think you'll find, James, that a pre-reg is a pre-reg whether it be done by the manufacturer or a dealer on their behalf. So the same rules apply. So obviously Wessexboy is correct. All registrations are clearly legit and, as no action has ever been taken, there is no Pre-registering going on at all. So it's a bit of a non-story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
