Road Tax

[LEMOJ 0]

Good afternoon respected members,

I am newbie in motor trade operating from home,  buying 2 or 3 vehicles at a time and parking them on road outside with no parking restrictions. my question are

1- Can I legally operate this from home buying couple of vehicles and selling them. no mechanical or paint work done at or outside home.  my friend's garage nearby who looks after all this. 

2- I have to tax vehicle to bring them from auction houses or other private sources using green slip. I have not applied for number plates  because I have no forecourt or private land to store them.  most of them sell within 4 weeks and remaining 5 months tax money DVL keeps it .. No refund.. because i am in motor trade and vehicle is not registered on my name . 

 Can I legally tax stock vehicle without registering it on my name? 

Is there a way I can save the remaining months tax? will there be any problem if the buyer use the same green slip to tax again which i have already used to tax online without registering vehicle on my name. 

your expert opinion required.

Thank you

Edited October 15, 2017 by LEMOJ

[Arfur Dealy 823]

It is illegal to park sales vehicles within 500m of each other. Your neighbours will hate you and the council will be onto you. 

Don’t show the registration in any advertising and park the cars in different areas away from residential parking. Rotate them every 3/4 days. 

Tax the car by DD and cancel when sold. You will need a Motor Traders insurance policy and apply for self employed status with HMRC. 

Good luck. 

[trade vet 702]

Hi Lemoj

You have just received valuable advice.

I would suggest sending Arfur a grand......an good accountant or solicitor would charge a lot more

I am sure he will provide you with an invoice.

[It's me 615]

4 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

 

Tax the car by DD and cancel when sold.  

i posted a link the other day where anyone caught doing this will face dvla consequences

why not rent a small part of someone elses private land?

i rented a corner of a bodyshop holding yard for 4 years to hold stock whilst waiting to be prepared

i dont understand why you would pay tax on cars and willing to lose it rather than park them off road and do test drives through trade plates

this is the legal way of being a motor trader 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

39 minutes ago, s and b said:

i posted a link the other day where anyone caught doing this will face dvla consequences

why not rent a small part of someone elses private land?

i rented a corner of a bodyshop holding yard for 4 years to hold stock whilst waiting to be prepared

i dont understand why you would pay tax on cars and willing to lose it rather than park them off road and do test drives through trade plates

this is the legal way of being a motor trader 

Legal way ? There is nothing illegal in trading without a forecourt, you just need to do it professionally. Finding space to store cars which is safe and secure, with the right business use and logistics is the enemy.

I will always help someone who gets off their ass and to try at earn their own living. Just as long as they are legal and paying their way. 

Hi Paul, I’m an internet based business. After 31 years in the trade I have specifically chosen not to operate like a forecourt. I sell all my cars to customers who have watched my video appraisal and made the decision to buy on the basis of it. My purchase process it designed to eliminates Timewasters, it also guarantees  neither parties time is wasted. You need to make the effort to watch the video. Regards Simon 

Ignore from hi Paul, stupid cut n paste whilst in the pub. 

[Jimbo 11]

Definitely invest in trade plates will help a lot and save £’s

[2435mick 0]

2 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Definitely invest in trade plates will help a lot and save £’s

Trade plates are a valuable business asset however they wont help Lemoj as he can only park on the road, trade plates cannot be used for this pupose so he is left with the options given, pay for road fund by DD and then cancel upon sale completion or find some storage land

[have a word with the wife 299]

thats a very good post tradex 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

11 hours ago, tradex said:

1- Can I legally operate this from home buying couple of vehicles and selling them. no mechanical or paint work done at or outside home.  my friend's garage nearby who looks after all this. 

Hmm....can of worms...get the popcorn....site traders v door steppers.

That may depend on a few things, some simply to do with your residence to start with. Off the bat items that doesn't get a lot of 'airtime' are below, but as always the best thing is to always ask.....unless the answer may not be what you wish to hear

Examples, which may or may not apply:-

* Do you own your house?...that's a good starter.

* If you have a mortgage, you may (99.9% certain) need to seek the mortgage providers permission to operate a business from the premises?

* If you rent your house, then you may (99.9% certain) need to seek the permission of the landlord to operate a business from the premises?

* Are there any covenents on the house regarding operating a retail business from the premises?

* Does your/the current house buildings insurance have any clauses relating to operating a business from the premises....most do in the small print?

* With regards to your motor trade internal risks insurance cover, and are they aware you are operating from a residential premises?

* And this is a biggie. What are the local bylaws, for example planning requirements regarding change of use as you are retailing goods. The best place to ask? Not here we won't know the full answer, it's the council of course, some things are standard across the UK, some are not as councils have their own clauses on things. Ask, you never know, could be a breeze.

Now, most of the guys I know, whom trade from home (I hate the term, but known as 'door steppers') simply ignore all of the above. I choose not to think about this too much. Don't me wrong they aren't bad guys, some are even good friends . I even put business their way if it's not the type of thing we sell, say German stuff. They have one thing in common though, which is that they have thicker skins than me and can sleep for England, nothing worries them...me I'm a worrier.

Saying all that, Mr C trades from home. But Mr C has gone thru the hoops and even has a piece of paper from the council regarding change of use on a part of his pile (could be an email, we are now in the modern age?)....but you need to know he lives at the end of a dead end country lane, with but one neighbour 400 yards ways, sits on 4 acres, the cars are not priced-up, are stored out of site, does everything by the book (home insurance was a particular nightmare... but we were always happy to hear the story at auction between cars) and Mr C seems to get a lot of VAT investigations, which he puts down to his trading circumstances, "they got it in for me". 

Now, car sites are expensive for a reason, they can retail cars without any surprises....within reason.

The "I only use it for storage with payment at another location" argument. This seems to crop up from time to time on here, it don't stand a wash.

A solictor friend between drinks and golf () once told my partner something I still remember now....relating to when we had what he called 'Black Storage'. Now 'Black Storage' was his term for saying 'storage' as a cover for retail....we even got away with it for a while on what what was a really 'lucky site',  for 6 months back in the day. We traded from a unit on an industrial estate when we were between sites and were in desperate times (very), we weren't the first to trade from the unit either as it even had a built in valeting bay, but the landlord turned a blind eye as long as he got paid.

The council were fereting away as it was obvious we were retailing cars, it's hard to be covert with these things, but then the council can find it hard to prove. But, around these parts once the council know they won't let go and they would turn up at the oddest of times sometimes wth camera's noting the goings on.... 'they knew, that they knew, that we knew. Good fun, but tiring though.

But here is the thing, if a monetary transaction takes place on the 'storage' premises then bang you are now retailing, be it at the storage site or your house. The sticky bit is that a legal business receipt must have amoung other oddities an address......we even tried payment only by BACS and having a 'pick up point', bit like Argos but none of this appeased our tame solicitor or the council has they known.

None of which made a lot of difference as one of our neighbours got pissed at us one day and bubbled us up to the council. Didn't make any difference that we did our neighbour many favours to keep him sweet, but when one his Trannie drivers (the van, not his sexual habit) couldn't park in his favorite spot, he blamed his lateness on us....

Some of the above may be of use, most not but at least you get the idea.

Change of use for your home address is very hard to prove, lots of professional people work remotely from home. MP’s,  academicsmusic teachers, the list is endless. 

Of course you can work from home, as long as you, your wife and children live there as a family then they cannot say the use of the home has changed.. 

If however, you turned your home into a drive through hand car wash the council will have issues. 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

I can amagine if you turned your house into a forecourt with cars with prices, bunting, inflatable mitchelin men, signage and advertising on your local radio...the council might take issue with you. 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

40 minutes ago, tradex said:

...are the all important balloons ok?

To be serious, it's a question that comes up so often it would be worth doing the leg work, the answer seems to fall into two distinct camps.

Q/ Have you actually looked into this formally?

We are looking at a rent increase after the new year of around 200 quid a month not fortunes but enough, and although rumblings of site development have stopped for the moment (not a surprise given current market) the idea of retailing from home needs a thorough looky see. 

I/we are still of the mind that a site pays for itself and for us is the proper way to do business, but it's always good to keep one's options open.

If you don’t take the mick, then there is no reason for the council to take issue. There is no law to say you can’t sell cars from your home, or you can’t give piano lessons, or sell your home grown vegetables, this is how small businesses grown into larger businesses which subsequently support, employ and fees the families of the local community. 

[It's me 615]

2 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

If you don’t take the mick, then there is no reason for the council to take issue. There is no law to say you can’t sell cars from your home, 

and there you have it

i remind the accused that the op's original post mentioned taxing and dumping cars on a road

i go see my brother in law not often but when i do i cant park anywhere near his house because a car trader has nicked all the spots

 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

8 minutes ago, s and b said:

and there you have it

i remind the accused that the op's original post mentioned taxing and dumping cars on a road

i go see my brother in law not often but when i do i cant park anywhere near his house because a car trader has nicked all the spots

 

If that is the case SB, you should tell your brother in law to complain to the council. It is the against the law to have a sales vehicles parked on the road within 500m of each other. 

If however, the OP parks his cars with a distance of 500m between them then he is operating within the law. 

[BHM 994]

4 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

If that is the case SB, you should tell your brother in law to complain to the council. It is the against the law to have a sales vehicles parked on the road within 500m of each other. 

If however, the OP parks his cars with a distance of 500m between them then he is operating within the law. 

Do you know where is this stated as fact? I’ve heard this trotted out for decades but I’ve never been directed to the proof of this.

I’m all self contained on my land but I know a few lads who seem to fill the roads & parking bays of their housing estates and although the neighbours probably hate them they’ve never had any ‘official’ problems. Personally I couldn’t be arsed trading like that but if finances dictated then I would if I had to.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

35 minutes ago, BHM said:

Do you know where is this stated as fact? I’ve heard this trotted out for decades but I’ve never been directed to the proof of this.

I’m all self contained on my land but I know a few lads who seem to fill the roads & parking bays of their housing estates and although the neighbours probably hate them they’ve never had any ‘official’ problems. Personally I couldn’t be arsed trading like that but if finances dictated then I would if I had to.

http://www.nwpcp.org.uk/E_MINUTES/e_post2002/e_cabinet/e_reports/12Sale%20of%20Cars%20on%20the%20Highway.pdf

[BHM 994]

Ta. You’re the first person to point me to the Clean Neighbourhoods & Environment Act - I shall relish the chance to rub some faces in this next time I venture to the block.

[have a word with the wife 299]

3 hours ago, tradex said:

"Trading as a person acting as a pedlar, under the authority of a pedlar’s certificate."

 

I've not heard of 'pedlars' outside of a Dickens book? I must google that.

£12.25, apply at local police station, if its open, i had one years ago, chief constable pulled a file out, blew the dust off it, studied it, and then handed me a pedlars certificate