Source stock online ?

[SK Motors 4]

Hi,

I've been what you would call a part time home trader for around 3 1/2 years now alongside my main employment in an engineering/manufacturing business.

I started off selling cars around £1000 a time but now sell anything up to around £10,000. Over the time I've been trading I've sourced stock from Dealerbid, Autotrade-mail, auction4cars.com, Dealerpx.com and I've just signed up to Autorola.

I left Autotrade-mail due to the high cost and not getting a great number of cars through there (Most seemed either already sold or I couldn't get a response from the seller). It seemed the right decision as their attitude when I cancelled was basically to make it as hard as possible and charge me as much as possible !!

Recently (around 18 months) I've sold mainly main dealer px's and provide warranties from Warrantywise which seemed to be going very well until now. I've really struggled sourcing stock at the right price to enable any profit at all !

I've tried joining other online sources such as Dealer-auction but as I'm not Vat registered they aren't interested with the exception of Autorola who once I'd provided proof of trading etc allowed me to join. I'm not overly impressed with the way the system works, what's other peoples opinions of them ?

Are there any other online stock sources I haven't mentioned that I could join without being Vat registered ?

 

 

 

[Wheelerdealer1 91]

So how have you avoided being VAT registered thus far ? Selling used cars you would have reached the threshold long ago

[SK Motors 4]

Well, I believe the threshold is £81,000 ? 

In the early days I was selling much cheaper cars so it was easier but as I'm getting into more expensive cars I can obviously only sell a certain amount until I hit the threshold. 

How difficult is it being Vat registered, bearing in mind I'm running on a part time basis? Everyone's been telling me for ages to avoid being Vat registered at all costs! 

[sparky 274]

Become VAT registered and play by the same rules as the rest of us. Once you start paying VAT your really have something to moan about.

[Max Branning 149]

Well, I believe the threshold is £81,000 ? 

In the early days I was selling much cheaper cars so it was easier but as I'm getting into more expensive cars I can obviously only sell a certain amount until I hit the threshold. 

How difficult is it being Vat registered, bearing in mind I'm running on a part time basis? Everyone's been telling me for ages to avoid being Vat registered at all costs! 

You can avoid it all you like but once you start turning over the threshold then it is mandatory to register. I think you have to decide whether to take the business seriously or not. Once you adapt to being VAT registered then it really is not that difficult.

I personally would like to see all auctions whether online or live be strictly VAT registered dealers only. This would get rid of the bandits and private buyers making life easier for all of us..

[sparky 274]

 

I personally would like to see all auctions whether online or live be strictly VAT registered dealers only. This would get rid of the bandits and private buyers making life easier for all of us..

Amen.

[SK Motors 4]

You can avoid it all you like but once you start turning over the threshold then it is mandatory to register. I think you have to decide whether to take the business seriously or not. Once you adapt to being VAT registered then it really is not that difficult.

I personally would like to see all auctions whether online or live be strictly VAT registered dealers only. This would get rid of the bandits and private buyers making life easier for all of us..

I didn't mean to avoid becoming Vat registered in any other way than to just make sure I don't turn over more than the threshold. 

My concern with going Vat registered is the extra time it'll take to run the accounts etc bearing in mind it's just me on my own and I have a full time job and also my partner runs a business from home which includes evenings and weekends! 

I'm not some dodgy trader trying to avoid paying tax or Vat, I'm just trying to get along in life the best way I can! 

 

[Max Branning 149]

Accounts is no problem just find an accountant to do it for you. Mine does my VAT returns every quarter and charges me about £100.

 

[SC Derby 259]

I do the VAT myself, it takes about 30 minutes every quarter if you have your stock book in check anyway.

[Wheelerdealer1 91]

How did you get on A4u without a VAT Num ?

[Max Branning 149]

I do the VAT myself, it takes about 30 minutes every quarter if you have your stock book in check anyway.

Always worth having a good accountant on board though. The money they can save you sometimes outweighs their fees. And also one less thing to worry about.

[SC Derby 259]

think they will accept trade insurance iirc.

[SK Motors 4]

Auction4cars didn't require Vat registration when I signed up to them some time ago iirc. 

[Phil H 124]

Auction4cars didn't require Vat registration when I signed up to them some time ago iirc. 

 

that's another source of stock which will soon be made more expensive for us when Motorpoint float on the stock market and have the Greedy shareholders to answer to. Wonder if they'll go down the arrogant attitude   route like AT and wreck it?

[SC Derby 259]

Always worth having a good accountant on board though. The money they can save you sometimes outweighs their fees. And also one less thing to worry about.

yes by all means I agree, just not for doing the vat

[Edward Roots 1]

CD Auction Group, don't require VAT registration, we do require a motor traders policy though. I currently work for them, so if you need a hand with anything send me a message. 

Edited January 19, 2016 by James Baggott
Promotion for businesses is not allowed on this forum. Edited to remove contact details. Advice only here please.

[Wheelerdealer1 91]

So I was wondering why A4U cars sometimes go for over what dealers like us can turn a profit on, if it's open doors to all chancers then I'm not suprised 

 

 

[SK Motors 4]

So I was wondering why A4U cars sometimes go for over what dealers like us can turn a profit on, if it's open doors to all chancers then I'm not suprised 

 

 

As much as I agree that some cars go way over what we would pay to make a profit, why does not being Vat registered mean people are 'chancers'? 

You still have to prove you're in the trade by means of trade insurance, trade plates, proof of trading etc. 

CD Auction Group, don't require VAT registration, we do require a motor traders policy though. I currently work for them, so if you need a hand with anything send me a message. 

Tried emailing you but it came back as 'undeliverable' for some reason! 

Edited January 19, 2016 by James Baggott

[Wheelerdealer1 91]

As much as I agree that some cars go way over what we would pay to make a profit, why does not being Vat registered mean people are 'chancers'? 

You still have to prove you're in the trade by means of trade insurance, trade plates, proof of trading etc. 

SK I can't see how you haven't reached the threshold as I said previously, VAT registration means you would be paying margin, which you are not, you don't have an accountant, premises, and you work elsewhere not in the trade, add this all up and your classed as a chancer, not a serious motor trader, of course this may change in the future and I wish you luck with that.

 

Edward Roots what are your requirements for a "trade account"?

[russp 10]

SK I can't see how you haven't reached the threshold as I said previously, VAT registration means you would be paying margin, which you are not, you don't have an accountant, premises, and you work elsewhere not in the trade, add this all up and your classed as a chancer, not a serious motor trader, of course this may change in the future and I wish you luck with that.

 

Edward Roots what are your requirements for a "trade account"?

Just because he is a part time trader selling say a car a month at £5000 - £8000 a go doesnt make him a chancer!

As long as he is paying his taxes, has the correct insurance in place and offers a good service and warranty I cannot see what the issue is.

It is no different in any industry. You wouldnt call someone with a high street shop turning over £1500 a week selling bread or cakes or sweets etc a chancer.

They are just a small, local business.

The vat threshold is set at £82000 for any business and thats the rules. You choose to sell more than that and SK motors chooses to sell less. You both have the choice.

I completely agree that the guy with a different car parked on a street corner every week pocketing the cash, offering no service or warranty and paying no taxes is no good to any of us, but the 2 are quite different.

 

[SK Motors 4]

 

Just because he is a part time trader selling say a car a month at £5000 - £8000 a go doesnt make him a chancer!

As long as he is paying his taxes, has the correct insurance in place and offers a good service and warranty I cannot see what the issue is.

It is no different in any industry. You wouldnt call someone with a high street shop turning over £1500 a week selling bread or cakes or sweets etc a chancer.

They are just a small, local business.

The vat threshold is set at £82000 for any business and thats the rules. You choose to sell more than that and SK motors chooses to sell less. You both have the choice.

I completely agree that the guy with a different car parked on a street corner every week pocketing the cash, offering no service or warranty and paying no taxes is no good to any of us, but the 2 are quite different.

 

Thank you! 

I don't see myself as a chancer at all. I sell cars usually with long mot, good service history, excellent warranty cover and a friendly, no pressure environment. 

 

[Max Branning 149]

 

Just because he is a part time trader selling say a car a month at £5000 - £8000 a go doesnt make him a chancer!

As long as he is paying his taxes, has the correct insurance in place and offers a good service and warranty I cannot see what the issue is.

It is no different in any industry. You wouldnt call someone with a high street shop turning over £1500 a week selling bread or cakes or sweets etc a chancer.

They are just a small, local business.

The vat threshold is set at £82000 for any business and thats the rules. You choose to sell more than that and SK motors chooses to sell less. You both have the choice.

I completely agree that the guy with a different car parked on a street corner every week pocketing the cash, offering no service or warranty and paying no taxes is no good to any of us, but the 2 are quite different.

 

I would say the vast majority of home traders or part time traders do not do things by the book. How many have planning permission to trade? how many actually do declare what they earn? The reality is these traders are making life harder for the real full time traders who have ever increasing overheads.

Someone who operates a small shop selling cakes is trying to make a living the best way they can, compare it to someone selling cakes on a stall at the front of their house.

[russp 10]

I would say the vast majority of home traders or part time traders do not do things by the book. How many have planning permission to trade? how many actually do declare what they earn? The reality is these traders are making life harder for the real full time traders who have ever increasing overheads.

Someone who operates a small shop selling cakes is trying to make a living the best way they can, compare it to someone selling cakes on a stall at the front of their house.

I agree to a certain extent but its unfair to tar all with the same brush.

There are many large vat registered traders who dont do a lot of things properly and give us a bad name, so I think it is important to look at every case individually.

There are large and small businesses in every sector and thats what makes the world go round.

Good talking point though.

[SK Motors 4]

I would say the vast majority of home traders or part time traders do not do things by the book. How many have planning permission to trade? how many actually do declare what they earn? The reality is these traders are making life harder for the real full time traders who have ever increasing overheads.

Someone who operates a small shop selling cakes is trying to make a living the best way they can, compare it to someone selling cakes on a stall at the front of their house.

This site obviously isn't going to be as helpful as I thought it would be! 

For your information I spoke to our local council regarding planning permission before I started trading and was told that as long as I don't advertise cars from the property or have lots of people coming and going everyday then I wouldn't need permission. 

I also declare everything I earn! 

I could easily tar all dealers with the same brush as people are trying to do to me on here! 

[jimreidvehicle 255]

Yes I agree there are large and small businesses in every industry however we should all be on the same level playing field, I don't have a problem with someone who sells from their 'home' as long as they are playing by the same rules as the rest of us i.e proper trade insurance, trade licence, licences premises , ensuring work is carried out on car before customer takes collection, ensuring customers are covered by some type of warranty and stand by the same Consumer Rights Rules, FCA rules ,Trading Standards rules and VAT rules, which means calculating 'total turnover', which means that you would likely only manage to sell 6 £10k cars each year, because prep, warranty, insurance, licences, ATM subscriptions and advertising costs will quite easily make up the other £22k over a year! Just saying!      

Hi,

I've been what you would call a part time home trader for around 3 1/2 years now alongside my main employment in an engineering/manufacturing business.

I started off selling cars around £1000 a time but now sell anything up to around £10,000. Over the time I've been trading I've sourced stock from Dealerbid, Autotrade-mail, auction4cars.com, Dealerpx.com and I've just signed up to Autorola.

I left Autotrade-mail due to the high cost and not getting a great number of cars through there (Most seemed either already sold or I couldn't get a response from the seller). It seemed the right decision as their attitude when I cancelled was basically to make it as hard as possible and charge me as much as possible !!

Recently (around 18 months) I've sold mainly main dealer px's and provide warranties from Warrantywise which seemed to be going very well until now. I've really struggled sourcing stock at the right price to enable any profit at all !

I've tried joining other online sources such as Dealer-auction but as I'm not Vat registered they aren't interested with the exception of Autorola who once I'd provided proof of trading etc allowed me to join. I'm not overly impressed with the way the system works, what's other peoples opinions of them ?

Are there any other online stock sources I haven't mentioned that I could join without being Vat registered ?

 

 

 

Just as a matter of interest how many cars do you sell per week, per month, per year? As I would love to know how you manage to keep under the VAT levels! Stock is hard to source for us all and even harder to make a living for most when you are paying margin vat on your profit. Im my humble opinion Auctions should only ever allow VAT registered traders into their sales anyway, or they could run two levels of sales the first time they run through the cream cars of the auction then for the cars that don't sell through that vat registered sale they can then go back through the ring allowing non- vat registered traders and public to bid each other up, sounds fair to me, what do you think?