should Auctions be made to give Private Buyers a Warranty?

[barriecrampton 6]

So British Car Auctions bought We Buy Any Cars, good source of cheap vehicles for their Auctions

Auction Day at BCA you cant swing your Glasses Guide round with out hitting 10 Shell Suit Wearing Private Buyers pushing a pram round

A garage cant sell a car to a private without giving a Warranty, but Private Buyers can stand next to a Trader at an Auction and drive the prices up

So my question is, if a Private can buy a car at an Auction without a warranty, why cant the trade sell cars without a Warranty?

At least at a garage they can have a test drive and examine the car properly, they cant do that at Auction

As it would seem the Auctions are encouraging private buyers to attend their sales, i suggest they should be made to give warranties too

This is a guess at best, but I am sure that BCA/Webuyanycar will now be one of the largest retailers of used cars in the UK ( allegedly )

If the car is bought by webuyanycar BCA is the buyer and the retailer, if a private buys a car then surely he should be given a warranty?

I know one thing for certain, if Auctions had to give a Warranty on the cars they sell to Joe Public, there would be barbed wire and a moat round them to keep the privates out

The subject is open for discussion

Does anyone agree, or disagree ?

[Guest]

Personally I have to agree......but I can see the auction houses already running a mile.

How does a private buyer currently stand when a car they buy from an auction house has challenges from the off. Is it sold as seen? Are they not protected by the "not fit for purpose" clauses?

[ivanhamillcars 1]

When an auction sells a car to a private buyer they have effectively carried out the same deal as a car dealer, so I see no reason why they should be exempt from standing over any problems that should arise. If a dealer has to abide by the sale of goods act then surely it's only fair that an auction house that retails a car to a private seller should be bound by the same law.

[Andy Entwistle 96]

Are these private buyers or are these the army of kerbside sellers, looking for a quick profit without any of the responsibility we all have?

[LawJaw 50]

Firstly, a garage can sell a car to a private buyer without giving a Warranty. There is no legal obligation on a garage to provide anyone with a warranty...

 

http://www.lawgistics.co.uk/used-car-warranties/motor-trade-warranty-guarantee-service-contract/warranties-the-legal-requirements-when-selling-second-hand-cars

 

 

However a private buyer does have legal rights when buying from a trader...

 

http://www.lawgistics.co.uk/used-car-warranties/motor-trade-warranty-guarantee-service-contract/what-are-the-customers-legal-rights-when-buying-a-used-car

 

What has been missed here is that the Auction House almost never owns the vehicles that are sold. 
 

They are acting as an agent of the owner who is wishing to sell it.  If the owner/seller is a private individual, their Sale of Goods/contractual obligations are very limited and a greater risk is passed to the buyer as regards defects. 

 

Where the seller/owner is doing so in the course of trade or business then the Sale of Goods Act does apply. 

 

If the buyer is a private individual then the Unfair Contract Terms Act prevents their legal rights from being eroded.

[James Baggott 227]

Thanks for this answer - very comprehensive and useful. Barrie - does that answer your question?

[Jamie Edmonds 28]

So taking that to the next level, I'm going to don my finest Sports Direct leisurewear and head down to Blackbushe tomorrow in search of a bargain, as I know Baggott's motors is getting rid of some trade ins and there's a lovely blue Impreza WRX I fancy.  Assuming I win the auction (which I will, because the car is clearly a nail nobody else would want) if I take the car home and find the diff whines like a neglected spaniel and the engine knocks like a postman can I then go back to the dealer who consigned the car under SOGA as they effectively sold the car to me?

[barriecrampton 6]

Firstly, a garage can sell a car to a private buyer without giving a Warranty. There is no legal obligation on a garage to provide anyone with a warranty...

http://www.lawgistics.co.uk/used-car-warranties/motor-trade-warranty-guarantee-service-contract/warranties-the-legal-requirements-when-selling-second-hand-cars

However a private buyer does have legal rights when buying from a trader...

http://www.lawgistics.co.uk/used-car-warranties/motor-trade-warranty-guarantee-service-contract/what-are-the-customers-legal-rights-when-buying-a-used-car

What has been missed here is that the Auction House almost never owns the vehicles that are sold.

They are acting as an agent of the owner who is wishing to sell it. If the owner/seller is a private individual, their Sale of Goods/contractual obligations are very limited and a greater risk is passed to the buyer as regards defects.

Where the seller/owner is doing so in the course of trade or business then the Sale of Goods Act does apply.

If the buyer is a private individual then the Unfair Contract Terms Act prevents their legal rights from being eroded.

[barriecrampton 6]

the no warranty bit doesnt show up on my iphone so will read later

but what about a car that is bought by webuyanycar and then sold through the auction, its not a px disposal from a trader, its been bought specifically, and then sold to a private?

[LawJaw 50]

You got it Mr Edmonds ... but please keep this quiet, for the sake of the trade.

 

You can not restrict a consumers statutory rights.

 

Of course every case is different, subject to the T + C's of the auction i.e Trade Only.

[LawJaw 50]

Mr Crampton, in the circumstance you describe Webuyanycar would be the trader.

[barriecrampton 6]

Mr Crampton, in the circumstance you describe Webuyanycar would be the trader.

 

I may be flogging a dead horse here, but BCA own webuyanycar so they are not a third party and BCA are not the middle man, unless the we buy any cars stuff goes through another auction firm they are effectively sourcing and selling their own stock,

 

ps I'm not that fond of Barrie but Mr Crampton is worse

[Gavin@Rousdon 137]

So if BCA was made to offer 'private' buyer warranties they would just hand pick the prime stock, inspect it and grade it them promote the auction to the public and rake in the massive buyers fees they charge private buyers with the added cost of the warranty on top. So the trade would be deprived of 'Prime Stock' or forced to pay big money bidding against the public.

 

The trade are then left to fight over the Grade 3-5 cars which will need bodyshop attention, tyres etc, they may come a touch cheaper but the time getting them out on sale will be longer due to the added re-con.

 

I say leave the element of risk there as it's whats stops more private buyers attenting auctions.

[Gavin@Rousdon 137]

I may be flogging a dead horse here, but BCA own webuyanycar so they are not a third party and BCA are not the middle man, unless the we buy any cars stuff goes through another auction firm they are effectively sourcing and selling their own stock,

 

ps I'm not that fond of Barrie but Mr Crampton is worse

 

I see your point Barrie but would you prefer BCA to focus more on selling to your customers?

[barriecrampton 6]

I see your point Barrie but would you prefer BCA to focus more on selling to your customers?

 

Erm actually I think thats exactly what they are doing

[GreenGiant 287]

Maybe somebody needs to instigate a Trading Standards investigation?

It would be interesting to see how the BCA/wenickanycar.com relationship might be viewed in law, particularly in reference to the SOGA as you guys have discussed.

You'd have thought that BCA's legal team would have had that base covered, but who knows..?

[Ben-CriteriaCars 3]

BCA dont even comply with their own rules.  

 

Here's my gripe, 5 years ago I purchased a Renault Megane (I know your going to say that its my fault, but hear me out)  It stated warranted mileage of 62k.  I sold the car and 3 months later after a few issues which I had sorted out for the customer, it turned out he was like a dog with a bone he started to question the miles and managed to find out that the history was forged and the mileage was incorrect, it had actually done just over 135k, They had done a great job of hiding it.  This didn't go down well with any of us as you can imagine and when I approached BCA explaining the mileage was warranted, they told me that whatever the vendor states, is their liability.  Well, they weren't very helpful at all, after  several phone calls, they explained that the vendor is a regular seller and they had never had issues with them before, but conveniently the vendor went bankrupt and BCA didn't want to know anymore, they completely washed their hands of it, leaving me with an empty wallet, a very sour taste in my mouth and a very upset customer.

 

If warranted miles doesn't mean that the mileage is warranted.  WTF does anything they say mean? 

 

I haven't bought a car from BCA since, and my reputation is back in tact.

[barriecrampton 6]

BCA dont even comply with their own rules.  

 

Here's my gripe, 5 years ago I purchased a Renault Megane (I know your going to say that its my fault, but hear me out)  It stated warranted mileage of 62k.  I sold the car and 3 months later after a few issues which I had sorted out for the customer, it turned out he was like a dog with a bone he started to question the miles and managed to find out that the history was forged and the mileage was incorrect, it had actually done just over 135k, They had done a great job of hiding it.  This didn't go down well with any of us as you can imagine and when I approached BCA explaining the mileage was warranted, they told me that whatever the vendor states, is their liability.  Well, they weren't very helpful at all, after  several phone calls, they explained that the vendor is a regular seller and they had never had issues with them before, but conveniently the vendor went bankrupt and BCA didn't want to know anymore, they completely washed their hands of it, leaving me with an empty wallet, a very sour taste in my mouth and a very upset customer.

 

If warranted miles doesn't mean that the mileage is warranted.  WTF does anything they say mean? 

 

I haven't bought a car from BCA since, and my reputation is back in tact.

Thats interesting, so what do you pay indemnity for

[Kido 4]

Interesting to hear that wenickanycar now belongs to BCR as they have being buying cat Ds of me for the last few months 7 in total to date and emails and calls asking for any more .

Have just done a deal for three more and one is a cat C we have came to a price just vehicle inspection and if you know the guys it's amazing what a bit of lunch can do !

[Ian 15]

Wouldn't touch 'em with a barge pole. Worms Can A Of.

[barriecrampton 6]

After starting the discussion last week I noticed this article in the news

 

it basically says that Manheim Auction will be disposoing of up to 400 cars per week that have been sourced by we want any car, as I understand the situation, Manheim either own or are investors in wewantanycar and are therefor sourcing their own stock and selling it, again i can not see how this differs from having your own garage and being responsible for the cars mechanical well fare for 3 to 6 months, yet a car sold through the Auction is sold as seen.

 

You try and do that from a pitch or a garage and see how quickly Trading Standards take you to court, Im not advocating that garages shouldnt give warranties, but the Auctions are clearly attracting more Private Buyers, they compete at Auctions with Traders and drive the prices.

 

I personally think this is a loophole that should be looked into, needs to be a level playing field where the Auctions are seperated for Trade and Private, all cars at the Private Sale should have been inspected,all the necessary checks carried out, the car should have a Warranty, they should get the chance to test drive it and bring a "Lunatic who they refer to as a Knowledgable Friend" <------- Dont get me started, or a mechanic,

 

Lets see how many Staff they need to employ to do that, and what effect it has on the prices!

[Ian 15]

In my experience the sort of cars that are bought by WBAC type firms are one's that have been poorly maintained (if at all) and to be avoided.

[Gavin@Rousdon 137]

I was always under the impression that 'UK Car Group' & 'C&C Trade Sales' had an element of  stock sourced via 'We buy any car'. I've not brought many but the 10 or so I have purchased  from 'UK Car Group' lines have been prime stock. I maybe wrong but had anyone else heard this?

[Ian 15]

I thought that too.

[GreenGiant 287]

I was always under the impression that 'UK Car Group' & 'C&C Trade Sales' had an element of  stock sourced via 'We buy any car'. I've not brought many but the 10 or so I have purchased  from 'UK Car Group' lines have been prime stock. I maybe wrong but had anyone else heard this?

 

Afaik, both are all rebranded WBAC stock.

Best condition stock is UKCG and klunkers are branded CCTS.

But i could be wrong... it did happen....once...