vw polo 1.2 Refunding a customer

[EPV 631]

3 minutes ago, Selfy trader said:

 

Do you feel I’ve been more than fair over what is quite a cheap car? I mean we all have to swallow that cars go wrong but I’ve jumped through his hoops that he’s laid out and now his strategy hasn’t paid dividends he’s throwing the issue back at me

I think to use Arfur’s analogy you’ve given an inch and he’s taken a mile. You’ve done the job right I think mate. 

[Selfy trader 1]

14 hours ago, boring dave said:

hi

reading the original post and what was done i see that the trader was over helpful

the customer sees this as a sign of weakness

this is why they are pushing now

if the OP sends that letter i bet on the 2.30 at kempton tomorrow he will get a lba

the customer has nothing to lose but £98 

this is why i suggest the seller uses all due diligence by going through all the motions and writing it all down times dates conversations

he then has a much better chance if it goes to court

think about it

so mr dealer this car had the same problem recurring since the day they bought it

remember an orange light is just an orange light to somebody not conversant 

Can you elaborate on your point please? I don’t 100% understand, it’s been a stressful 6 months with this gentleman 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Selfy trader

[EPV 631]

1 minute ago, boring dave said:

hi

reading the original post and what was done i see that the trader was over helpful

the customer sees this as a sign of weakness

this is why they are pushing now

if the OP sends that letter i bet on the 2.30 at kempton tomorrow he will get a lba

the customer has nothing to lose but £98 

this is why i suggest the seller uses all due diligence by going through all the motions and writing it all down times dates conversations

he then has a much better chance if it goes to court

think about it

so mr dealer this car had the same problem recurring since the day they bought it

remember an orange light is just an orange light to somebody not conversant 

Ok well that’s not what you said mate, you said about the OP going to have a non commital look, inspecting the oil etc. 

Anyway, don’t you think, based on what we know, assuming that the car has done a couple of thousand miles since the ECU was replaced, that IF it did go to court (punter looking for a refund) OP would walk this? The punter is not entitled to a refund. At all. 

[Del Boy 76]

I don’t agree with what Dave is saying here. 

Firstly, there’s nothing to say this new ‘fault’ is even the same as before! 

Second, how can it have been there from date of sale and only shown it self twice in 6 months? 

[Selfy trader 1]

1 minute ago, Del Boy said:

I don’t agree with what Dave is saying here. 

Firstly, there’s nothing to say this new ‘fault’ is even the same as before! 

Second, how can it have been there from date of sale and only shown it self twice in 6 months? 

EML has appeared 2-4 times but 2 were mis-diagnosis and a faulty replacement ECU the first time

[Del Boy 76]

Just now, Selfy trader said:

EML has appeared 2-4 times but 2 were mis-diagnosis and a faulty replacement ECU the first time

What time frame did the 2-4 lights appear? 

[Selfy trader 1]

2 minutes ago, Del Boy said:

What time frame did the 2-4 lights appear? 

From a few days after the sale, then after lambdas were replaced, and after first faulty replacement ECU, and obviously very recently hence his unhappy e-mail 

car was purchased in late April, since first mis-diagnosis (from the first attempt at repair and my garages only attempt)

Edited September 23, 2018 by Selfy trader

[It's me 615]

6 minutes ago, Selfy trader said:

Can you elaborate on your point please? I don’t 100% understand, it’s been a stressful 6 months with this moron Hahaha 

yes

go look at the car or get a professional to

listen to engine check oil check fault codes present and historical

base whether you are willing to help once this is done

if it goes to court the judge will see the car had lots of problems when purchased and these have returned

judges cant differentiate between orange lights today and when purchased if you dont have evidence they arent related in their summing up

if it goes to court you sold a lemon and knew it

think about it

if you go to court you need to win on evidence 

put yourself in shoes of customer ,would you be happy? this cars been nothing but trouble since purchased

 

do yourself a favour do not buy another ask any garage what a piece of garbage they are

[Del Boy 76]

Just now, Selfy trader said:

From a few days after the sale, then after lambdas were replaced, and after first faulty replacement ECU, and obviously very recently hence his unhappy e-mail 

I’d consider that issue fixed then. 

This is something else and not your problem. 

Even if it is the ecu again, he needs to go back to who fixed it. What nick says above is correct. Nothing to do with you whatsoever. Don’t let this idiot get you down, just tell him straight once and move on. 

[It's me 615]

10 minutes ago, EPV said:

Ok well that’s not what you said mate, you said about the OP going to have a non commital look, inspecting the oil etc. 

Anyway, don’t you think, based on what we know, assuming that the car has done a couple of thousand miles since the ECU was replaced, that IF it did go to court (punter looking for a refund) OP would walk this? The punter is not entitled to a refund. At all. 

i never said customer was entitled to a refund i said go see the car and decide what action to take

by sending the letter it leaves you not knowing what is wrong and customer having independent inspections which would be added to any court costs if OP loses in court because same fault is still present

[Selfy trader 1]

1 minute ago, Del Boy said:

I’d consider that issue fixed then. 

This is something else and not your problem. 

Even if it is the ecu again, he needs to go back to who fixed it. What nick says above is correct. Nothing to do with you whatsoever. Don’t let this idiot get you down, just tell him straight once and move on. 

Thankyou very much, is it worth me calling the specialist tomorrow morning and finding out the fault? (Specialist has been very very helpful in my favour and are not a fan of the “gentleman” I sold the car to either’

[It's me 615]

6 minutes ago, Selfy trader said:

From a few days after the sale, then after lambdas were replaced, and after first faulty replacement ECU, and obviously very recently hence his unhappy e-mail 

car was purchased in late April, since first mis-diagnosis (from the first attempt at repair and my garages only attempt)

within 6 months then

read my posts again

ive been to court by the way

[Selfy trader 1]

2 minutes ago, boring dave said:

i never said customer was entitled to a refund i said go see the car and decide what action to take

by sending the letter it leaves you not knowing what is wrong and customer having independent inspections which would be added to any court costs if OP loses in court because same fault is still present

I appreciate your less optimistic angle on proceedings and I certainly will get the car inspected, probably by his specialist as they have been helpful to me, attempting to keep costs down for me etc, assuming this will help should the issue go further?

[Del Boy 76]

2 minutes ago, Selfy trader said:

Thankyou very much, is it worth me calling the specialist tomorrow morning and finding out the fault? (Specialist has been very very helpful in my favour and are not a fan of the “gentleman” I sold the car to either’

Has he taken it back there since the light came on again? 

[EPV 631]

Just now, boring dave said:

i never said customer was entitled to a refund i said go see the car and decide what action to take

by sending the letter it leaves you not knowing what is wrong and customer having independent inspections which would be added to any court costs if OP loses in court because same fault is still present

But that’s what the point is here. The OP is asking if the punter is entitled to a refund. The answer is, no he fucking well ain’t. The punter needs to be told that  

If the punter then takes OP to court for a refund he will lose. 

If however the punter tempers his expectations and instead asks for the problem to be fixed then yes, as I posted above, the punter needs to get the car diagnosed and then the OP can make a decision on whether to help or not. 

[It's me 615]

Just now, Selfy trader said:

I appreciate your less optimistic angle on proceedings and I certainly will get the car inspected, probably by his specialist as they have been helpful to me, attempting to keep costs down for me etc, assuming this will help should the issue go further?

before it goes any further would they be willing to give a witness statement if car has another unrelated fault

[Selfy trader 1]

2 minutes ago, Del Boy said:

Has he taken it back there since the light came on again? 

Apparently so yes, I shall call them tomorrow morning 

Just now, boring dave said:

before it goes any further would they be willing to give a witness statement if car has another unrelated fault

I doubt they’d want to get involved, i certainly wouldn’t if I were them

[It's me 615]

2 minutes ago, EPV said:

But that’s what the point is here. The OP is asking if the punter is entitled to a refund. The answer is, no he fucking well ain’t. The punter needs to be told that  

If the punter then takes OP to court for a refund he will lose. 

If however the punter tempers his expectations and instead asks for the problem to be fixed then yes, as I posted above, the punter needs to get the car diagnosed and then the OP can make a decision on whether to help or not. 

oh dear

[Del Boy 76]

1 minute ago, Selfy trader said:

Apparently so yes, I shall call them tomorrow morning 

I doubt they’d want to get involved, i certainly wouldn’t if I were them

Yeah phone them direct. Get it in writing what the fault is. That’s all the proof you need regarding statements etc. 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

1 hour ago, justlooking said:

Explain you’re happy to resolve this new issue by having it back and fixing as per your legal requirements unde CRA2015 

After 5 months.... legal requirements? Bring it back ? 

[Selfy trader 1]

2 minutes ago, Del Boy said:

Yeah phone them direct. Get it in writing what the fault is. That’s all the proof you need regarding statements etc. 

If this is genuinely a new fault, I’m more than happy to fix, it’s within the 6 month period, he’s been aggressive but patient, and if I were in his shoes I’d be pretty pissed off also

[EPV 631]

Just now, boring dave said:

oh dear

What do you mean Oh dear? 

The consumer is past the 30 day right to reject. He MAY be entitled to a repair depending on what is broken. He is not entitled to a refund whatsoever. He hasn’t asked for a repair (yet) and if he does the OP will have to at least get it diagnosed. 

Could you explain how it’s even possible the consumer could successfully take the OP to court and win a refund based on what we know?

I appreciate you have been to court Dave but we are advising someone on whether a consumer is entitled to a refund here. He isn’t. 

[Max Branning 149]

I personally would not contact them anymore.

You did more than enough by paying a specialist garage to remedy any faults and now more problems have come up. This is an 11 year old car sold for banger money really... whats to say you spend another few hundred quid on it and next month something else goes wrong ?

If they contact you then tell them its not your responsibility anymore and if they want to pursue matters then put it in writing. Do not ring them and try to be reasonable as they will take that as you are paying !

My bet is they will not pursue. 

 

[It's me 615]

so to summarise

you sold a car

it went faulty

a garage unknown to you threw lots of parts on at your expense

its now gone faulty again within six months with possibly same fault

supplying garage dont want to give witness statement to the fact their repairs fixed the original problem

your customer now has a car where handbook says return to dealer if light on 'do not drive'

and you are listening on an internet forum to tell customer to do one

as i said earlier you need concrete proof this is a new problem unconnected to whats already fixed

if you dont do this the customer can claim for independent investigations car hire loss of use road tax insurance storage stress etc

trust me here you could easily get a claim for 5g

but hey what do i know im an optimist whos been there got the t shirt

4 minutes ago, EPV said:

What do you mean Oh dear? 

The consumer is past the 30 day right to reject. He MAY be entitled to a repair depending on what is broken. He is not entitled to a refund whatsoever. He hasn’t asked for a repair (yet) and if he does the OP will have to at least get it diagnosed. 

Could you explain how it’s even possible the consumer could successfully take the OP to court and win a refund based on what we know?

I appreciate you have been to court Dave but we are advising someone on whether a consumer is entitled to a refund here. He isn’t. 

he could win

and if you lose and forget to ask for the car back the claimant gets to keep that too whether its worth 5 bob or 50 grand

[Selfy trader 1]

2 minutes ago, boring dave said:

so to summarise

you sold a car

it went faulty

a garage unknown to you threw lots of parts on at your expense

its now gone faulty again within six months with possibly same fault

supplying garage dont want to give witness statement to the fact their repairs fixed the original problem

your customer now has a car where handbook says return to dealer if light on 'do not drive'

and you are listening on an internet forum to tell customer to do one

as i said earlier you need concrete proof this is a new problem unconnected to whats already fixed

if you dont do this the customer can claim for independent investigations car hire loss of use road tax insurance storage stress etc

trust me here you could easily get a claim for 5g

but hey what do i know im an optimist whos been there got the t shirt

I certainly am not ignoring your point and am trying to treat this fairly, like I’ve said previously, if I have to give the punter a refund il have to, however I don’t want to just bend over when threatened