CRA - Conclusive Action Required Legally

[trade vet 702]

Excuse me OD but you say the punter ONLY paid £2800 for a 14 year old 5 series.Is that not a bit salty,it’s now worth £1000 on a good day in most places.That could have something to do with it,you live by the sword etc etc.....Sorry not much help.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

3 minutes ago, EPV said:

A 14 year old car and 120,000 miles?

Sorry, with due respect, your mention earlier about how you’d fix a car within 3 months cos that’s how long your warranty is shows that you don’t have quite the grasp of this subject as you think you might. 

[EPV 631]

44 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

There is no definitive answer. 

I can highly recommend them also. 

Wait though, until you really need them because you’ll get a years coverage from that date. 

Cheers for the advice. 

Right now, turning 8 cars a month (I wish I had 20 so i could turn 15) I can’t see the logic in spending £795. I will definitely sign up one day. 

[MSP Motors 39]

6 minutes ago, EPV said:

A 14 year old car and 120,000 miles?

Sorry, with due respect, your mention earlier about how you’d fix a car within 3 months cos that’s how long your warranty is shows that you don’t have quite the grasp of this subject as you think you might. 

16 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Would you.

With a stinking attitude like that you would be told to take responsibility and ownership for the maintenance and repairs of your own car. 

That's how long my warranty is. I'm well aware of the CRA and what it entails I have a firm grasp on this subject and have many years of experience and don't  need any advice from someone who probably hasn't even paid a vat return. But you carry on.

 

[trade vet 702]

2 minutes ago, MSP Motors said:

That's how long my warranty is. I'm well aware of the CRA and what it entails I have a firm grasp on this subject and have many years of experience and don't  need any advice from someone who probably hasn't even paid a vat return. But you carry on.

 

Oh dear !

[EPV 631]

2 minutes ago, MSP Motors said:

That's how long my warranty is. I'm well aware of the CRA and what it entails I have a firm grasp on this subject and have many years of experience and don't  need any advice from someone who probably hasn't even paid a vat return. But you carry on.

 

“Now having said that..... My warranty period is 3 months, and if the said claim falls outside 3 months I would not want to be paying for this old spunker to get fixed.”

 

Can you explain why you would pay for the car to be fixed within 3 months but not after 3 months? And why your 3 month warranty has ANY bearing whatsoever on this subject? 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

7 minutes ago, MSP Motors said:

That's how long my warranty is. I'm well aware of the CRA and what it entails I have a firm grasp on this subject and have many years of experience and don't  need any advice from someone who probably hasn't even paid a vat return. But you carry on.

 

Twat

21 minutes ago, EPV said:

Cheers for the advice. 

Right now, turning 8 cars a month (I wish I had 20 so i could turn 15) I can’t see the logic in spending £795. I will definitely sign up one day. 

Only when needed. 

[Okay dokay 3]

Thanks for all the replies to everyone.

 

to add a few facts - 3 month warranty with third party warranty company was included - but the claim limit is £1500. Customer has been told new gearbox required at £2500 by local garage, however it’s in daily use with gearbox cog sign warning on display.

Customer is demanding refund of car or repair.

We are already Lawgistics members and they are familiar with the case and it’s ongoing with them issuing correspondence.

What I hate about this game, is a punter thinks a

£200 car should come with the same rights as a £5K car. If you choose to buy a car nearinng the end of its life - how can a dealer be held responsible for 6 months to shell out for any new faults - which is actually 6 years according to Lawgistics!

I agree we need test cases. 

Selling used cars is harder than selling drugs or guns - the same rights on a decade old motor as a new kettle from Argos is just insane. 

 

Apparently a hot topic! 

Pleased to stir some conversation on the topic - there needs to be clarification on what we legally are obliged to do. Don’t get me wrong - we do lots as goodwill for customers, but running and maintaining the car for them I just think is a piss take.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

8 minutes ago, Okay dokay said:

Thanks for all the replies to everyone.

 

to add a few facts - 3 month warranty with third party warranty company was included - but the claim limit is £1500. Customer has been told new gearbox required at £2500 by local garage, however it’s in daily use with gearbox cog sign warning on display.

Customer is demanding refund of car or repair.

We are already Lawgistics members and they are familiar with the case and it’s ongoing with them issuing correspondence.

What I hate about this game, is a punter thinks a

£200 car should come with the same rights as a £5K car. If you choose to buy a car nearinng the end of its life - how can a dealer be held responsible for 6 months to shell out for any new faults - which is actually 6 years according to Lawgistics!

I agree we need test cases. 

Selling used cars is harder than selling drugs or guns - the same rights on a decade old motor as a new kettle from Argos is just insane. 

 

Apparently a hot topic! 

Pleased to stir some conversation on the topic - there needs to be clarification on what we legally are obliged to do. Don’t get me wrong - we do lots as goodwill for customers, but running and maintaining the car for them I just think is a piss take.

It’s still in use... 

[EPV 631]

If you have Lawgistics on the case the last thing you need is us lot guessing away

what are Lawgistics saying? I assume they are definitely saying a refund is out of the question and I assume they are also saying due to the age and mileage of the car the replacement gearbox isn’t a fair reflection of what you should be doing? 

[Okay dokay 3]

3 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

It’s still in use... 

That is more of an assumption since the bloke has driven it to the garage and we have in writing he continued to drive with EML /gearbox light on after switching off and on. 

I was probably incorrect to suggest still in daily use I don’t have anything concrete on that. 

 

But I do know it did not break down, a recovery was not carried out, and it was driven further.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

Let them destroy it, the fact they haven’t stopped using it makes them complicit. 

You are in a legal dispute, the magistrate will dismiss. 

[It's me 615]

i was the first to post on this thread and my reply was based on the fact the car was over 3 months in customers hand and thus my  rejection was based on this but even so i would probably be willing to give some support to a claim until i read the owner is driving with the light on advising not to,i would be getting photographic evidence of that plus writing down what the customer said

 

i now understand it to be within 3 months so i would be looking for a cash injection from the customer as a beterment payment or see them in court,you are not refusing to help but you are also not putting them in a better position than when they purchased it,of course an alternative is to just fit a breakers gearbox 

remember they should NOT be running this car now in fault mode,make sure this is in your court statements if it goes there

im sure lawgistics will give you similar advice

i am not a lawyer

[Okay dokay 3]

2 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Let them destroy it, the fact they haven’t stopped using it makes them complicit. 

You are in a legal dispute, the magistrate will dismiss. 

Apparently slipping between 5th and 6th gears making it unfit for intended purpose (motorway commuting)

 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

4 minutes ago, Okay dokay said:

That is more of an assumption since the bloke has driven it to the garage and we have in writing he continued to drive with EML /gearbox light on after switching off and on. 

I was probably incorrect to suggest still in daily use I don’t have anything concrete on that. 

 

But I do know it did not break down, a recovery was not carried out, and it was driven further.

Please give the facts, don’t elaborate, just the facts.

[Okay dokay 3]

30 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Please give the facts, don’t elaborate, just the facts.

I have tried. Just needed to correct the daily comment, daily or not, it’s been driven since fault occurred.

I know what my view is, the idea of the thread was to see what the law says we have to do. 

It would seem slipping between gears is likely to be a clutch pack, torque converter, or valve body issue because of wear and tear. It’s my view CRA doesn’t apply.

[trade vet 702]

42 minutes ago, Okay dokay said:

Apparently slipping between 5th and 6th gears making it unfit for intended purpose (motorway commuting)

 

Motorway commuting in a banger.He must have done some miles.

[EPV 631]

9 minutes ago, Okay dokay said:

I have tried. Just needed to correct the daily comment, daily or not, it’s been driven since fault occurred.

I know what my view is, the idea of the thread was to see what the law says we have to do. 

It would seem slipping between gears is likely to be a clutch pack, torque converter, or valve body issue because of wear and tear. It’s my view CRA doesn’t apply.

But you have Lawgistics on the case mate, they know the law. What are they saying? 

[Okay dokay 3]

1 hour ago, trade vet said:

Excuse me OD but you say the punter ONLY paid £2800 for a 14 year old 5 series.Is that not a bit salty,it’s now worth £1000 on a good day in most places.That could have something to do with it,you live by the sword etc etc.....Sorry not much help.

Please show me where you are buying 2004 E60 Autos with big engines for £1000

6 minutes ago, EPV said:

But you have Lawgistics on the case mate, they know the law. What are they saying? 

They are agreeing we are not culperable - plus the guy let a garage have a go at an EML problem 4 weeks ago and spent £600 which didn’t cure issues, we were never informed / given opportunity to see car or help. Introduction of 3rd party repairer distances us further from being responsible in our view. 

Ill be honest I did interpret the CRA incorrectly, I thought we were only obliged to fix if faults present at time of sale, I didn’t realise it’s any new faults too (not inc wear and tear) according to some on here.

 

[mike101 8]

Be interesting to know exactly how many miles have been done and the exact time since the sale.

Okay dokay - unfortunately it’s not Black and White. There’s no correct answer, there is only guidance which even in law is woolly at best.

in my opinion even with 120k miles if he paid close to £3k he should expect the gearbox to last longer than 3 months. That said if he’s done 5k miles in that time then might change things (plus at 50 ppm he’ll owe you soon if he keeps driving :)) 

If it was me Id be trying to speak the guy establish the facts , and if necessary get the car back and assess the situation. 

 

 

[EPV 631]

10 minutes ago, Okay dokay said:

Please show me where you are buying 2004 E60 Autos with big engines for £1000

They are agreeing we are not culperable - plus the guy let a garage have a go at an EML problem 4 weeks ago and spent £600 which didn’t cure issues, we were never informed / given opportunity to see car or help. Introduction of 3rd party repairer distances us further from being responsible in our view. 

Ill be honest I did interpret the CRA incorrectly, I thought we were only obliged to fix if faults present at time of sale, I didn’t realise it’s any new faults too (not inc wear and tear) according to some on here.

 

Ok well you’re golden then. The only thing this thread has done is start a few rows 

[mike101 8]

14 minutes ago, Okay dokay said:

Please show me where you are buying 2004 E60 Autos with big engines for £1000

They are agreeing we are not culperable - plus the guy let a garage have a go at an EML problem 4 weeks ago and spent £600 which didn’t cure issues, we were never informed / given opportunity to see car or help. Introduction of 3rd party repairer distances us further from being responsible in our view. 

Ill be honest I did interpret the CRA incorrectly, I thought we were only obliged to fix if faults present at time of sale, I didn’t realise it’s any new faults too (not inc wear and tear) according to some on here.

 

There you go - sounds like that’s your defence. If the Gearbox fault didn’t exist when they checked the EML and he spent 600 quid the fault is proved to have developed since the sale!

[MOTORS 25]

19 minutes ago, Okay dokay said:

They are agreeing we are not culperable - plus the guy let a garage have a go at an EML problem 4 weeks ago and spent £600 which didn’t cure issues, we were never informed / given opportunity to see car or help. Introduction of 3rd party repairer distances us further from being responsible in our view. 

Ill be honest I did interpret the CRA incorrectly, I thought we were only obliged to fix if faults present at time of sale, I didn’t realise it’s any new faults too (not inc wear and tear) according to some on here.

 

18 hours after asking the forum for legal advice (and not opinions) you now say that Lawgistics confirm you're not culpable.....

[Okay dokay 3]

7 minutes ago, mike101 said:

There you go - sounds like that’s your defence. If the Gearbox fault didn’t exist when they checked the EML and he spent 600 quid the fault is proved to have developed since the sale!

Ah, but there’s the rub - apparently we are still obliged to repair new faults even if not present at POS!

13 minutes ago, mike101 said:

Be interesting to know exactly how many miles have been done and the exact time since the sale.

Okay dokay - unfortunately it’s not Black and White. There’s no correct answer, there is only guidance which even in law is woolly at best.

in my opinion even with 120k miles if he paid close to £3k he should expect the gearbox to last longer than 3 months. That said if he’s done 5k miles in that time then might change things (plus at 50 ppm he’ll owe you soon if he keeps driving :)) 

If it was me Id be trying to speak the guy establish the facts , and if necessary get the car back and assess the situation. 

 

 

But the gearbox has lasted longer than 3 months, it’s lasted 14 years and 3 months. The clock doesn’t restart on a part every time a car is sold.

6 minutes ago, MOTORS said:

18 hours after asking the forum for legal advice (and not opinions) you now say that Lawgistics confirm you're not culpable.....

Lawgistics from what we/they know yes. But they are not jury and judge on these things, a claim can be filed in court regardless of what Lawgistics think - you are missing the point.

[mike101 8]

2 minutes ago, Okay dokay said:

Ah, but there’s the rub - apparently we are still obliged to repair new faults even if not present at POS!

But the gearbox has lasted longer than 3 months, it’s lasted 14 years and 3 months. The clock doesn’t restart on a part every time a car is sold.

That’s the point - the clock starts for you when the sale takes place. 

Faults that take place within the first 6 months are latent faults and the burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise. He’s had an independent garage do work on the car since sale who presumably didn’t identify a gearbox fault at that time. Therefore it’s reasonable to conclude the fault has developed since ownership.

You might still have some liability but I’d be putting that message across first if it were me.