Autotrader Price Guide

[Mark101 536]

Clearly, this is one of this forums favourite subjects - AT (sorry).

When I key in the VRM and mileage, I get a rough guide price.  Is that based on everything currently advertised with AT or CAP or Glass's or whole of Market and how realistic would you say it is?

My cars are all advertised above the AT valuation, why do I do that?

All get PDI, Full MOT (even if there is 10 months left), valet, warranty, service (irrespective of when it was last done) and any paint defects addressed and although not VAT registered yet, I am still factoring my VAT margin because I do not want to get used to being able to "pocket" and extra few hundred quid in a deal for when it inevitably is forced upon me - This doesn't come cheaply.  I trade from home and rather than have swarms of people picking over one because it is cheap, I want 1 person (hopefully the first) to appreciate the extra value that few hundred quid buys you and walk away happy.

Having said that, even when I had the pitch, I would rarely be allowed a chip beyond £100 or so because I knew that the right person would be along eventually.

One example (my only one on AT at the moment) https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803184688829?logcode=visc&fromSA=true

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Mark101
Added link

[EPV 631]

If I may;

You've parked your car in a puddle. It doesn't take a minute to find a better spot that isn't showing a car in a muddy puddle. Also, try and find a spot where cars aren't visible in the background. The first thing I saw when I clicked one of those photos was a red car in the background. Not what you want, obviously.

In terms of pricing, I think you're about £500 heavy. At the end of the day, it's your car, you price it up how you want. But if you're approx £500 over market value, you'd better have a good reason why and with all due respect, a car parked in a puddle in what is obviously some sort of nature trail/parkland car park isn't a good reason .I think the AT valuations are pretty much spot on, the majority of the time. Without getting into an AT debate, they are by far the biggest automotive platform online. They get more views than all of the other platforms combined. So with that in mind, it's reasonable to conclude their price indicators are accurate. They range from Good Price, Great Price and Priced Low. Whether we like it or not, buyers are influenced by these indicators, I've seen plenty of people bemoan the Car Guru's indicators because unfortunately in this internet age, buyers are price savvy. So they WILL look at the price indicators.

 

 

[Mark101 536]

25 minutes ago, tradex said:

AT pricing is generated by:-

 

 

and

 

 

 

 

 

 

PMSL

24 minutes ago, EPV said:

If I may;

You've parked your car in a puddle. It doesn't take a minute to find a better spot that isn't showing a car in a muddy puddle. Also, try and find a spot where cars aren't visible in the background. The first thing I saw when I clicked one of those photos was a red car in the background. Not what you want, obviously.

In terms of pricing, I think you're about £500 heavy. At the end of the day, it's your car, you price it up how you want. But if you're approx £500 over market value, you'd better have a good reason why and with all due respect, a car parked in a puddle in what is obviously some sort of nature trail/parkland car park isn't a good reason .I think the AT valuations are pretty much spot on, the majority of the time. Without getting into an AT debate, they are by far the biggest automotive platform online. They get more views than all of the other platforms combined. So with that in mind, it's reasonable to conclude their price indicators are accurate. They range from Good Price, Great Price and Priced Low. Whether we like it or not, buyers are influenced by these indicators, I've seen plenty of people bemoan the Car Guru's indicators because unfortunately in this internet age, buyers are price savvy. So they WILL look at the price indicators.

 

 

Thank you EPV - I want constructive critisism and you're completely right - here's my rationale for the pic.

Spot on, it is a nature reserve/circular walking route that I have done 14 miles around with my dog, in my quest to stop being a very Fat B4574RD and just become a Fat B4574RD.

Trouble is, all of my other cars were pictured in that exact same spot (rather than with my home in the background) and I was trying to keep things uniform (it hadn't been raining the other days) and again, you're right - it is 500 notes too rich because I had built in contingency during prep - once it gets back from the workshop, I will evaluate what I can really live with and the likelihood is £5,495.

I did pay strong money for the car, so it isn't greed but I really refuse to give stuff away especially when buying stock is so difficult and all that time is a hidden cost many don't factor.

I might also reduce the warranty allowance and offer an "upgrade" instead of chipping or as a way to achieve incremental margin.

By the way, you will never offend me, so please continue to be frank.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply

[EPV 631]

There’s really no need to offer a 12 month warranty on a car like that. 3 months is sufficient enough to keep the punters happy in that respect, it also depends on whether you think someone will ask for one. Some people don’t stop talking about them as if they’re some sort of magical pixie dust that prevent cars breaking and others don’t even mention them. But you can def trim some costs back by offering a 3 month one. 

Re background, I agree it’s best to have uniform background but i’d find someone that has some sort of hardstanding and doesn’t have other cars in the background. Just my 2 cents. 

Edited March 22, 2018 by EPV

[Mark101 536]

Thanks EPV again - I will do that next time.

It is very close to the valeters, so I like to get my pics quickly before it gets too dirty,

[justina3 518]

I agree ditch the puddle, I myself could never sell that kind of car, there in the local trade center for £4995 in bucket loads whilst yours has low mileage i find people will pay a little more but not a lot more for 10k less on the clock, but each area is different i have a massive superstore 10 mins up the road so have to be different.

I presume you have researched what sells well in your area so wont tell you how to suck eggs.

 

[Grantlfc81 88]

All of my photos are regiment and I would deffo not have muddy puddles in my photos.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/services/car-dealers/uk/east-of-england/essex/billericay/village-cars-billericay-billericay-dpp-10012523

 

we are internet based only so it’s important customers judge our cars on our presentation. We are improving with every car.

 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

8 hours ago, Mark101 said:

Clearly, this is one of this forums favourite subjects - AT (sorry).

When I key in the VRM and mileage, I get a rough guide price.  Is that based on everything currently advertised with AT or CAP or Glass's or whole of Market and how realistic would you say it is?

My cars are all advertised above the AT valuation, why do I do that?

All get PDI, Full MOT (even if there is 10 months left), valet, warranty, service (irrespective of when it was last done) and any paint defects addressed and although not VAT registered yet, I am still factoring my VAT margin because I do not want to get used to being able to "pocket" and extra few hundred quid in a deal for when it inevitably is forced upon me - This doesn't come cheaply.  I trade from home and rather than have swarms of people picking over one because it is cheap, I want 1 person (hopefully the first) to appreciate the extra value that few hundred quid buys you and walk away happy.

Having said that, even when I had the pitch, I would rarely be allowed a chip beyond £100 or so because I knew that the right person would be along eventually.

One example (my only one on AT at the moment) https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803184688829?logcode=visc&fromSA=true

 

Hi Mark, I price competitively within my locality 100 miles, but my cars tend be older and not mainstream so there isn’t a lot of competition. I get lots of buyers coming up from Cornwall because they realise they have to travel for the right car. I equally get buyers from London regularly because they are buying it cheaper from me. The secret is to know your market. 

I respect your ethos on getting things right, but your Fiat looks overpriced to me, what does the car owe you ? Can you break down its cost, hammer price, prep, paint, warranty etc...

I am with everyone else on the pictures, it doesn’t look good taking pictures in a puddle in what is clearly a car park.... first impressions are everything. 

I have a one owner 500 Lounge which I took in PX (I know it’s pink)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391968156827?_mwBanner=1&redirect=mobile

[Mark101 536]

6 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

 

6 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

I respect your ethos on getting things right, but your Fiat looks overpriced to me, what does the car owe you ? Can you break down its cost, hammer price, prep, paint, warranty etc...

 

6 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

 

Obviously, I am not VAT registered yet, so although I have made provision for VAT margin, there would be some £'s to come off the cost of sales (which show my costs inc. VAT).

CAP Cln was £4350 on auction day and all the others had gone approx. 10% over CAP Cln

[Mark101 536]

10 hours ago, Grantlfc81 said:

All of my photos are regiment and I would deffo not have muddy puddles in my photos.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/services/car-dealers/uk/east-of-england/essex/billericay/village-cars-billericay-billericay-dpp-10012523

 

we are internet based only so it’s important customers judge our cars on our presentation. We are improving with every car.

 

Looks great!

I particularly like your second pic which is a text detailing the car.  AT doesn't provide anywhere to write a nice blurb and you've done that well.

Being Internet based, do you trade from home or do you have a unit somewhere?

[EPV 631]

28 minutes ago, Mark101 said:

Do you mind me asking, why did you pay so much for that car? They're really rather undesirable round my way so I assume they must sell really well round your way?

Sorry about the formatting, no idea what happened

[Mark101 536]

How has that happened?  I never said that 

I just think (based on how many I see on the road) that they are a cool fun car and appeals to younger drivers but NOT boy racers - they are not fast and I've never seen any modified ones (save for some awful graphic decals people put all over them).

I thought it looked bright and all the others on the day (about 5 before mine) went for nearer £5k and I thought it was too good to be true - I didn't even check against CAP until after the sale when I was pleased to be under (only because the others were so far over).

I wouldn't normally aim so low on margin BUT...

Longish story but in a nutshell; I had done a deal with BCA to leapfrog onto Gold to steer me away from Wilsons/Private buying and the like.  Commit to buy 3 cars within a month and I get Gold card - fail and I go back to Blue (and I can't buy anything on Blue).  Knowing how difficult it is to buy stock, I saw this and thought there'd be some margin (not much) and will start as my 1 of 3 (I have since secured by other 2, so remain on Gold)

[EPV 631]

There’s one person that benefits from that mate. BCA. 

[Mark101 536]

12 hours ago, justina3 said:

I agree ditch the puddle, I myself could never sell that kind of car, there in the local trade center for £4995 in bucket loads whilst yours has low mileage i find people will pay a little more but not a lot more for 10k less on the clock, but each area is different i have a massive superstore 10 mins up the road so have to be different.

I presume you have researched what sells well in your area so wont tell you how to suck eggs.

 

We all talk about choosing who we sell to and my opinion of Car Supermarkets is that they attract sub-prime buyers looking to finance their £5k car over 25 years at 3000% APR.

Swarmed over my hundreds of 18 year old Sales Executives?

I have looked around them and every car I have seen looks rough, all with badly re-painted bonnets and over siliconed dash boards - just how I have found them anyway, maybe yours is different.

I will never compete on price (or be able to) with the big boys.   

[MSP Motors 39]

To me, a customer does not care about the reasons you think you deserve your money. Its all well and good saying I never take offers and I have prepped the car to an ultra-high level, however the customer cannot know that as they expect a certain level of car. In my experience, the hardest battle being internet base is getting the customer to pick up the phone, then following through with a visit to view the car. You have to give them a reason to pick up the phone and being internet based that come down to just a few things...... Price and on certain cars Spec\Desireability.

Like others have suggested the picture setting does not do the car justice. But who knows, you may well sell it straight away as the right car for the right person will sell and I wouldn't listen to my advice as I'm having a shocking run at the moment..........

1 minute ago, Mark101 said:

We all talk about choosing who we sell to and my opinion of Car Supermarkets is that they attract sub-prime buyers looking to finance their £5k car over 25 years at 3000% APR.

Swarmed over my hundreds of 18 year old Sales Executives?

I have looked around them and every car I have seen looks rough, all with badly re-painted bonnets and over siliconed dash boards - just how I have found them anyway, maybe yours is different.

I will never compete on price (or be able to) with the big boys.   

Whilst I agree here, buying patterns are changing. In my experience the younger generation are more price orientated, there will always be exceptions but in my opinion, people want perceived value and the ease of dealing with a one-stop shop. Look at the success of WBAC. I never thought that a company like that would have such success, just another indication of how the market has changed drastically. Small independents will shortly be a thing of the past.

[Mark101 536]

8 minutes ago, MSP Motors said:

Look at the success of WBAC. I never thought that a company like that would have such success, just another indication of how the market has changed drastically. Small independents will shortly be a thing of the past.

I think that is a consequence of "hard-times" and them having deep pockets - my last three have been UKCG Premium cars, so I am thinking of setting up a new website:

Ibuyanywebuyanycar.com 

They have all been Assured cars but I wouldn't go near the UKCG Trade section - wow, almost as bad as Multi-Vendor

[justina3 518]

i have tried two one i barley came out on top the other went backwards due to a rusty real axle, not for me rodney 

42 minutes ago, Mark101 said:

We all talk about choosing who we sell to and my opinion of Car Supermarkets is that they attract sub-prime buyers looking to finance their £5k car over 25 years at 3000% APR.

Swarmed over my hundreds of 18 year old Sales Executives?

I have looked around them and every car I have seen looks rough, all with badly re-painted bonnets and over siliconed dash boards - just how I have found them anyway, maybe yours is different.

I will never compete on price (or be able to) with the big boys.   

Yep i agree with your version, but my point is they still have a row of 500s so it would be pointless me even trying as no matter what i do i will always look expensive and my local one does some good deals not your usual zillion percent apr 

[ik1980 11]

There are some quite good deals out there for new and nearly new 500's. There are plenty of them as well. I have had one, very low miles, with some manufacturers warranty left as well, but it wasn't as easy to sell as I thought, nor that profitable. 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

1 hour ago, tradex said:

Funny things those 500's, we have never owned one (?) but always hear from colleges that they are real hard work being fickle on spec' and colour, maybe a regional thing? Time to put a toe in the water maybe, he who dares (whom?)

Agreed, not a sniff on mine....

[It's me 615]

2 hours ago, tradex said:

Funny things those 500's, we have never owned one (?) but always hear from colleges that they are real hard work being fickle on spec' and colour, maybe a regional thing? Time to put a toe in the water maybe, he who dares (whom?)

i think the interior will sell one or kill it

my favourite is half grey half red seat covers

of course hearing aid beige exterior is definitely a no no

dont ask

[BHM 994]

8 hours ago, tradex said:

Funny things those 500's, we have never owned one (?) but always hear from colleges that they are real hard work being fickle on spec' and colour, maybe a regional thing? Time to put a toe in the water maybe, he who dares (whom?)

Hard work, generally bought by the usual potless small car punter who wants finance and expects the Earth. Very fickle to get spec/miles/colour/price right, not for the likes of me.

[HKQAC 2]

On 3/22/2018 at 9:11 PM, Grantlfc81 said:

All of my photos are regiment and I would deffo not have muddy puddles in my photos.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/services/car-dealers/uk/east-of-england/essex/billericay/village-cars-billericay-billericay-dpp-10012523

 

we are internet based only so it’s important customers judge our cars on our presentation. We are improving with every car.

 

Don't mean to divert, but how do you get the background with logo, number etc.

[HKQAC 2]

On 3/22/2018 at 4:40 PM, Mark101 said:

Clearly, this is one of this forums favourite subjects - AT (sorry).

When I key in the VRM and mileage, I get a rough guide price.  Is that based on everything currently advertised with AT or CAP or Glass's or whole of Market and how realistic would you say it is?

My cars are all advertised above the AT valuation, why do I do that?

All get PDI, Full MOT (even if there is 10 months left), valet, warranty, service (irrespective of when it was last done) and any paint defects addressed and although not VAT registered yet, I am still factoring my VAT margin because I do not want to get used to being able to "pocket" and extra few hundred quid in a deal for when it inevitably is forced upon me - This doesn't come cheaply.  I trade from home and rather than have swarms of people picking over one because it is cheap, I want 1 person (hopefully the first) to appreciate the extra value that few hundred quid buys you and walk away happy.

Having said that, even when I had the pitch, I would rarely be allowed a chip beyond £100 or so because I knew that the right person would be along eventually.

One example (my only one on AT at the moment) https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803184688829?logcode=visc&fromSA=true

 

I'd leave the warranty, just try to up sell it after.  and background isn't great, but the pics of the car are really nice, interior wise as well.  Plus decent enough camera.  Alot of positives, but price isnt one of them.  It doesnt look like you'll be making alot of money on this one (IMO).  You'd make more money on an old banger!

Also just to point out margin is calculated including buyers fee's in the purchase price so you won't pay that much VAT.

And you'll probably be better off being VAT registered if you spend that much on prep, you'll only claim it back.

[Mark101 536]

Thanks HKQAC

Are you sure (only because I was told it was hammer price and that's how I've always done things when had pitch 12 years ago) about buyers fees?

Sorry for doubting you but I want to get my ducks in a row before I incorporate another business and register for VAT at the same time.

Cheers, Mark

[HKQAC 2]

That's the old way they did it, not anymore.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-7181-the-vat-margin-scheme-on-second-hand-cars-and-other-vehicles/vat-notice-7181-the-vat-margin-scheme-on-second-hand-cars-and-other-vehicles#making-your-margin-scheme-calculations

chapter 8.3

boring but a worthwhile read!