Court appearances won/lost

[MSP Motors 39]

Morning all,

I was curious to hear about some court cases you guys have been to. You hear lots of horror stories from people who have lost the most horrific court cases, but there must be some thrilling tales of victory also.

A friend of mine lost an horrific ordeal this year, where a scumbag customer won because the 25 grand range Rover he purchased had a dent on the roof 3 weeks after purchase. The customer actually turned up to court in the dented vehicle armed with a body shop quote of £1600. The judge ruled on the balance of probability the dent was probably there at point of sale. The scumbag claimed he was too short to inspect the roof when he purchased the car!

I myself have been twice, once when the customer turned up 10 minutes late (detailed on this forum) and another where the customer had driven the car 5000 miles, the EGR valve stuck open and he continued to drive. I won both of them, albeit one was by default.

This has definitely changed my Outlook on how I deal with complaints. Previously I would just given in to the customers demands. 

[trade vet 697]

Hi MSP

I have highlighted several cases on here and had little response,so I hope you are more successfull.I have been involved in 5 cases,won 3 lost 2.The ones I won involved suing BCA and the other defending a fake Trading Standards prosecution which I posted recently.In the other the defendant failed to turn up.Those that I lost both involved customers' taking the P' and lying which I could prove but it made no difference.I would say that traders should make every effort to avoid going to court to defend a case brought by a customer,because basically judges do not like car dealers and unless the rules have changed,you cannot appeal.

[It's me 612]

9 minutes ago, trade vet said:

I would say that traders should make every effort to avoid going to court to defend a case brought by a customer,because basically judges do not like car dealers and unless the rules have changed,you cannot appeal.

yes of course do everything in your power to sort it pre lba

but

i totally disagree,if you are in the right and have the evidence why would you not go to court,i know its nearly 10 months of hell but you cant let the bastards win because this is what they prey on( the customers )

personally like all things in life if a judge hates car dealers you may well be on a hard bat but equally they might be sympathetic too

my last case was heard in a totally alien town to me even the court couldn't understand why,maybe the judge asked to sit on it because he could see the claimant was a cow

what really boils my juices is there is no where you can check if these people go to the small claims court all the time as a second income ,im sure my last case claimant does it full time

[trade vet 697]

Like MSP,I would be interested to hear what these cases were about and how you defended them. ( if you have the time of course )

[have a word with the wife 299]

 

6 hours ago, trade vet said:

Like MSP,I would be interested to hear what these cases were about and how you defended them. ( if you have the time of course )

i had 3 witness statements against me, as well as the claimants claim for not only full money back on a vehicle purchased within 3 month [pre the new cra] but also claims for loss of wages, recovery, storage, and mental strain [honest!] the additional claim was deemed to be around a thousand pounds, [ to be estimated by judge at hearing ] the claimants 3 witness statements were full of non truths and it was a very painful ordeal leading up to the set date, never being in the situation before, and not knowing absolutely anything about money claim . [yes MONEY CLAIM, thats what you need to remember, its money claim] i can only thank god for the internet ! i was not allowed a independent engineer report, the citizens advice were hopeless beyond a joke, and to me the systems all wrong, its too easy to make a claim, and as a business its assumed you know everything from running a business to how to handle a small claim, the claim was mainly for a full mechanical failure of a vehicle....................sorry, will continue later, its rather upsetting. 

[trade vet 697]

12 minutes ago, have a word with the wife said:

 

i had 3 witness statements against me, as well as the claimants claim for not only full money back on a vehicle purchased within 3 month [pre the new cra] but also claims for loss of wages, recovery, storage, and mental strain [honest!] the additional claim was deemed to be around a thousand pounds, [ to be estimated by judge at hearing ] the claimants 3 witness statements were full of non truths and it was a very painful ordeal leading up to the set date, never being in the situation before, and not knowing absolutely anything about money claim . [yes MONEY CLAIM, thats what you need to remember, its money claim] i can only thank god for the internet ! i was not allowed a independent engineer report, the citizens advice were hopeless beyond a joke, and to me the systems all wrong, its too easy to make a claim, and as a business its assumed you know everything from running a business to how to handle a small claim, the claim was mainly for a full mechanical failure of a vehicle....................sorry, will continue later, its rather upsetting. 

More please !

[have a word with the wife 299]

22 hours ago, trade vet said:

More please !

so the full mechanical failure rendered the car undriveable, [and if i wrote everything that happened it would be more suitable for a book so will skim best as] this is where the recovery, storage and mental strain loss of income etc claim came from, i also had the claim for remember, court costs, original claim and also i had a claim for money spent whilst in there ownership [ i fitted a part and charged them cost price, at the time it was agreed it was failure due to age/mileage, later in the claimants claim paperwork this was denied lying barstewards  ! ] 

reading up on internet i learnt [ and the point in writing this is to help people who face a future claim] that when you look closely at the claim, [and whatever you do respond in a time !] it maybe made up of 3 or 4 or more claims in one, now what you MUST do, and its just easy to say i deny selling them a faulty car, you must also deny the other parts of the claim, or you may end up paying 25% of the claim because you didnt deny it ! covered by a simple = "defendant denies each and every allegation" because when writing your defence, its so easy to miss something!

small claims work on the balance of probabilities, and if its judged probable you did sell them a faulty car then because you didnt deny the other aspects of the claim [ maybe car hire] youll pay for that too !

this particular case i was 100% not going to be treat as a fool, the car was right when it left me, thats why i didnt just give em money back.

my defence was the above, and it had a pdi, and it had a full mot, [ car also had a superb  history, which i brought up in court] and my sales invoice, [learn here].

the case lasted a hour, i was confronted by loads of lies, but a good well written defence followed up by paperwork [proof] and straight answers to the claimants and judges questions gave me a "it is ordered the claim is dismissed" result!

it was proven = fault was not present at time of sale.

it was proven= any after sale work done by me i did not profit from [ customer service, i am a good lad ] .

it was proven = my invoice did not withdraw the customer from his rights, and should have been read before signing / agreeing .

little extra tip to slow these claimants down if your ever there, in your defence hold them to proof for every claim made in it, i e , they have to show proof [receipts, paperwork,diary pages etc.] to back up there claim, it slows them right down, and makes them work for it 

i was denied costs, i asked, i was refused .

[trade vet 697]

Very interesting,I think you must have presented your case very well.It just goes to show how people can try to profit from the CRA by not only claiming a full refund but by making inflated claims for consequential damages.However,the worrying aspect here is if the case took an hour,the judge must have had some doubts.

Out of interest,how much was the car and how many miles had it done in the 3 months before it ' failed '.

[have a word with the wife 299]

 

1 minute ago, have a word with the wife said:

This is exactly the point, the price of the car and the mileage done is of little  consequence, this is a money claim, there is no set minimum / maximum.

Edited November 5, 2017 by have a word with the wife

[trade vet 697]

2 hours ago, have a word with the wife said:

 

I do understand,but I was asking because  had it  e.g.  been a £4K car and the useage was 3000 miles, it could have been cost effective to have offered a full refund early on (less the charge for useage ).

[little spender 1]

could it not be put on the bottom of the recipt something like there will be a £80 per week hire charge or 80p per mile on any car returned plus

[have a word with the wife 299]

4 hours ago, little spender said:

could it not be put on the bottom of the recipt something like there will be a £80 per week hire charge or 80p per mile on any car returned plus

brilliant  

so sell ten cars in one week, hope they all come back in ten weeks and pocket £8000 

far better than stick em up  and you've got your original investment back