Arthur thicken

Tom, we are in both Yeovil and Bridport.

Well it looks like my ‘challenge’ has got people thinking, a very diverse mix of responses and some interesting ideas. It is a big part of the operating cost of running a car sales business and its good it’s finally got people comparing what they pay, if nothing else some of you may have ammunition to negotiate a reduction if you’re still with them. I’ll start from the beginning of April, I need to work out a fair way to compare, probably v’s the same month in the two previous years and as the months go by a picture should start to unfold, I’ll either be saving money and still selling enough or not, there’s no in between. Good luck to all and I’ll update regularly as there has been genuine interest in this topic. Arthur Thicken driving the prices down.....

Turnover is not profit Earunder, your post is great, you obviously manage your money very well. I don't have a marketing department, I, like you have call tracking and see email enquiries, I've sold 2 off AT this month so far, I measure everything and am prepared to try new advertising portals, but it has to be measured. Things are really tough, our service side of the business is really going well but sales in a struggle, we're in an under populated but over represented town, not enough to go round, we do some repeat and local business , which is best as it's no advertising cost and you retain the service work after the sale, if you've done the job right. I'm taking one site of and leaving the other on, I know it's perceived to be a gamble but at the moment I feel there's nothing to lose with the under performing site. If I was doing ten a month off Autotrader on each site I would stick with it, the cost per sale would be £150. When I've had meetings with AT staff, and I've had a few, even they say that's too much it should be no more than £100 cost per sale. With some of the prices I've seen on here that's just not possible.

Your friend is paying £13.84 per car per week. I'm not taking them on, I'm just offering them the opportunity to demonstrate pricing transparency, that's not going to happen is it? Also prove the value. The dealer you refer to is paying £2,076.92 per week, is he certain he can match the sales directly to AT? Depends if hes got call track numbers on his adverts that he can listen to. Anyway, AT say it's about transparency, I think that's about right, I can see straight through them. If people want to advertise on AT good luck to them, I'm not trying to start a revolution, I'm just making a point in direct relevance to what I do.

Changes are in progress to remove reference to new car sales, but thanks for pointing it out.

It shouldn't matter who you are, it should be a price per car perhaps in banding, say 10-20 cars 20-30 cars and so on. Back in 2012 PSA wrote me a letter to say they no longer saw value in the franchised dealer AT supported deal, which at that time was £5.25 per car, they thought it was too dear. Apologies if you don't know but PSA are Citroen and Peugeot. That's b******s about franchised deals differing from non franchised, their sales director told me a few years ago there would be no franchised dealer discounts, just ask yourself, why wold AT give discount to a dealer because he's got Citroen signs up and you haven't. £14.42 per car per week. A bit stiff Trade Vat. £15.10 per car per week, nothing is the same here is it, no one cheaper than me yet and if you say you are I expect you to do me the same courtesy of putting your invoice and contracted numbers on here..

I'm not sure what you mean, your trader mate pays £1200 for 15 cars I pay £1500 (using round numbers) for 45. He pays £18.46 per car per week, I pay £7.69 per car per week. So you can see what I mean when I say how did I opt for the shittiest deal ever, I bet you wont find anyone paying less per car per week than me in the UK, for reasons posted earlier.

Good luck to you sir, I did slightly mis quote before, its 38 cars for £1632.30 per site for the new April pricing so in rough terms paying about £280 more per month for 14 cars less if we were to continue with both sites. Happy to put the AT quote on there if anyone wants to see it.

Hi Stalker, it is for 90 cars, the vat is not relevant, but if your not vat registered you wouldn't know that. The bill is for £2944.40 for 90 cars split between 2 sites. The £1600 I quoted is the new price it's going up to per site, which will be £3200 plus vat (are you keeping up?) they are also saying it will be for a total of 74 cars instead of 90, so less cars for more money. I hope I haven't lost you, but if you want me to draw you a picture and colour it in let me know

Hi Arfur, I Never tried to suggest I'm comparable to you, as I said we are all different, if you see this as a special deal, ask if you can have it, it's too expensive for me. We are not main dealers either, aftersales only, up until recently we sold new Citroen Fiat and Mitsubishi, new car franchise costs are huge but aftersales isn't. I sometimes wish I stayed on my own, you must enjoy the freedom, I know I did. If I was selling from a small site or from home I would definitely advertise on AT because without all the costs we have I could sell cars cheaper, retain margin and have a little 'Great Price' tag by all my cars. If dealers become angry because of what I'm paying they shoud look to themselves and question why they paid so much. Good luck Arfur, happy selling.

I have uploaded a screen shot of the amount of contracted cars and a copy invoice as promised.

Hugh, yes that was me, the problem is dealers moan about the price but when it comes to it were frightened to pull off AT. If it were to be set up again it would need to be like a hub offering alternative solutions to AT, it would need Motors, Car Gurus, Ebay to offer a collective discount for members, there would need to be offers from Motor trade insurers, parts suppliers, any motor trade specific companies offering a discount to members. When I came off years ago, I was with ebay, motors, v cars, piston heads, it cost half of what AT was and we sold the same, only reason I went back on was it went quiet and my business partner suggested we give it another go, so we did. You're absolutely right Hugh, margins are being squeezed and costs are going up, be better off getting a job if it continues

Our website is not an Autotrader one, also we can’t operate off £500 nett it needs to be more than that. Realistically we need a minimum PPU of £750 and need to do 30 cars per site per month, I know we all have different set ups but that’s ours. I’ve taken a screenshot of dealer portal showing our contracted amount of cars on each site,I ive also got a copy invoice showing less than 3 grand plus vat for ninety cars in total, so less than £1500 for 45 cars. I don’t know how you make it pay on what you’re giving them, you may say you sell cars for good margin, but cars are dear to buy, auction fees are expensive and to appear on page one of Autotrader you’ve got to be cheap.

Hi trade vet, thanks for that, I can assure you prices vary wildly, everyone thinks they’ve done the best deal they can, and if they’re happy then fair enough, I’m not so I’m just sharing my future plans and what I’ve been paying. It’s now easy to measure what you get for the money, and it’s just not good enough for me. I’ve just logged into dealer portal and done a screen shot of the group view (2 sites) and then took individual photos of each ones amount of vehicles, it clearly states contracted for 45 cars per site, I’ll do the same with the invoice in the morning, then there’s no boubting what I say. Arthur Thicken driving the prices brown, tried up but it didnt work, AT say you gotta sell um cheaper...

Or perhaps the transparency Autotrader are so precious about. We all have different ways of selling cars and running a business, I’ve had three new car franchises, still got aftersales, sell over 1,000 cars per year, turn over in excess of ten million, I’m not bragging, because we’re struggling to make a profit, I’m just saying I’ve been doing it a long time and seen it all, I’ve sold bangers out of a lay by and represented global brands, I’m open to other people’s opinion, whether they trade from home, aren’t vat registered, or run huge dealer groups. I pay AT what I say Ipay them, I’ll prove that tomorrow. Good luck all.

Hello Hugh, yes it’s certainly getting harder, I started the MTAU several years ago with a friend and prices paid per car ranged from £6 to £20, they charge what they think they can get away with.. I can get an invoice tomorrow and post it if possible our contract say 38 with 25% free I’ll also screen shot our dealer portal, one thing I can assure you is I’m totally honest, perhaps all the fuss I’ve caused over the years with the MTAU I got a cheap deal, which is still too expensive. It’s actually a bit less than £1600. I don’t know what you mean by ‘your guys’ but I’ll put it on here, if I can’t do it I’ll put my mobile number, business name and web address on and email it to you for your perusal..

He has to give you the opportunity to fix it, you then return the car, if the problem re occurs he can ask for a refund, less usage, I’ve done this so have experience of it. If he wants his money back Tell him you will refund him under the terms of the consumer rights act 2015, ask him if he’s happy with that, if he is then he has to return the car to you, let’s say he’s paid £1500 for the car and had it 40 days, you can deduct usage at a daily rate, in this case say £25 per day which comes to £1,000. If the car is in the same condition as you sold it that’s fine, if there’s damage you can deduct for that also. You have 30 days to pay him from the day he returns it. I’ve done this, it’s the law.

The purpose of gap is to put the customer back in the position they started, so the price he paid is relevant not the advertised price, the invoice he received from you with the transaction price would be all they’d get from me.

Yes I’m sure we will, cancelled for a 18 month period about 8 years ago when we had one site and it happened then.

Apologies, we pay £1600 for 45 cars, we stock 60 cars.. £5,000 is madness that’s £19.23 per week, we’re dumping it at just under £10 per car per week. It’s easier to measure now, calls are recorded on both dealer portal and the eye as are emails so it’s easy to match calls and emails to sales, I’ll have a Big Mac please,,in fact I’ll go large.. cheers.

We have 2 sites one on a main road and one on a trading estate, they both have 60 used cars, they are both authorised repairer status with manufacturers, one does ok off Autotrader, they both do about the same with motors. I’ve cancelled AT for one and cancelled Motors for the other. Both sites are long established and have advertised with both for years. We’ve cancelled motors for the main road site and AT for the other. I’ve put a challenge to both AT and Motors, measure sales for three months and compare the results against numbers sold historically, I believe we can then gauge the value for both, Motors are keen and up for it, no reply yet from Autotrader. I’m doing it anyway as on the non main road site we’ve only sold 10 this month with only 2 from AT at a cost of £1600 per month. The price of AT was going up in April and it made me think what have I got to lose, I really believe people do multiple searches and often forget which site they saw the car on. This is not an attempt to beat up Autotrader or Motors it’s purely an exercise to see how many we sell at each site with only making one change. I know last years not this year but it’s the only transparent way of gagueing value for money. If I get negative feedback I won’t bother posting the results, if you’re genuinely interest I’ll post the results monthly. Good luck to all in these tough times. Arthur Thicken, driving the prices down.....

We do have over 100 cars in stock, struggle to see a profit the last three months, and I don’t want our wages bill either. ££££

No sold nothing yet, there is distortion as we have ivendi on our motors adverts and motonovo use it as well, however I did a test enquiry and it clearly says find and fund on the relevant advert so now easy to track, basically not an enquiry. It’s easy with Autotrader, they have dealer portal and motors have the eye, in February we had 77 traceable enquiries from Autotrader and 49 from motors, you can see the emails, listen to incoming calls, you know what you’re getting for the money. Find and fund has not worked for us, they are back with some stats saying 75 finance configurations were done every day on our stock, you would think one would turn into something, and I don’t know how they can give such accurate info on how many people use the finance calculator against our stock but can’t match anything else in terms of calls to dealership, emails or call tracking which is easy to set up and costs £2 per month.

January 55 February 68 March so far shite.. reduced a lot of stock in feb due to stocking pressure, it just goes to show it’s all about price, anyone can sell a tenner for nine quid..

We’re also with motors with ivendi finance calculator attached, only added recently, we started getting email enquiries, we initially thought it was find and fund, it turned out it was motors, the find and fund uses the ivendi platform, so I sent an enquiry to myself, it appears similar in the email, but look closely and they’re different. We’ve had nothing from find and fund, we said we’d do an initial 3 month period, we’ve been charged £895 per month, I told them people on the forum were paying a lot less, the reply was everyone pays the same. We have 125 cars, can anyone shed some light on this, as a few have quoted £200 to £300 for 120 cars.