Refunding customer

[Stalker 180]

You could  get the car back get a key for it inspect it and refund the guy less the costs? 

 

It’s a bit soft I know. But the punter is kind of in the middle of it all, and he could claim the losses from his garage? 

[Tony911 79]

43 minutes ago, Stalker said:

You could  get the car back get a key for it inspect it and refund the guy less the costs? 

 

It’s a bit soft I know. But the punter is kind of in the middle of it all, and he could claim the losses from his garage? 

They apparently have found the original key after 2 months, customer will not allow us to start the car on delivery never mind inspect the car. 

[Stalker 180]

4 minutes ago, Tony911 said:

They apparently have found the original key after 2 months, customer will not allow us to start the car on delivery never mind inspect the car. 

Why cant it be started?

Have they attempted to remove the glow plug and a bit fallen inside the engine?

 

[Tony911 79]

5 minutes ago, Stalker said:

Why cant it be started?

Have they attempted to remove the glow plug and a bit fallen inside the engine?

 

It can be started but we not allowed to start or inspect it. It drove 6 hours to get to his house

[Stalker 180]

He’s clearly being unreasonable, without a reason to not start... ie banging it’s brains out with an oil problem, I see no reason not to start except to hide something that his garage may have done wrong? 

[Tony911 79]

Fook it will fight all the way. We cant do anything else. 

[have a word with the wife 299]

On 19/12/2018 at 9:32 PM, Tony911 said:

Hi, new here really need some advice on a used car we sold to a customer.

Sorry but it will take a while so please take in all information and give us some advice as this is the first time in 10 years of trading to come across a situation like this.

 

Here is the interesting part customer says he will contact the courts next day and have case put on hold until this matter is resolved, little to our knowledge the following day we recieved a letter from the courts stating customer had not paid the hearing fees and his cas was struck out and a couple of weeks later another letter stating his application to reinstate the case was not granted and the case is struck out and will need to start all over again. 

Not paid hearing fess claim of £2000 would be £170, to be paid before hearing, so, why has he not paid this? my opinion is, he thought his case was weak, he knows you have documented evidence in regard the glow plug/s and other evidence in your defence of this case, and so, backed down. its very unfortunate that you offered refund in that space, these things happpen, so, he has reapplied, and its been struck out, excellent ! i honestly believe its been struck out because the courts believe he has no chance of winning, they dont strike it out for nothing ! See him in court, and tell him so, you have further evidence this vehicle you have not been allowed to inspect, there was no key, the garage aren't helpful, and remind him and the courts this case has been struck out twice quoting the claim number and =

part 27 of the small claims track=

27.6  (b) to enable it to dispose of the claim on the basis that one or other of the parties has no real prospect of success at a final hearing.

27.6 [c]   to enable it to strike out^(GL) a statement of case or part of a statement of case on the basis that the statement of case, or the part to be struck out, discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing or defending the claim.

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by have a word with the wife

[Arfur Dealy 823]

3 hours ago, Tony911 said:

That vehicle was sold with no warranty as stated in advert he broke down due to a faulty accelerator pedal which we tried to rectify. Now all part exchange stock is sold as spares or repairs or export only. Dont get confused. Now with all the lies that are coming out how do we know there garage did not snap the glow plugs? We have been to collect the car with no result they offered to bring car back but we can't start it or inspect the car this is where we have disagreed as we are not happy with what has been told to us. 

Tony, any warranty given is in addition to your resonsibilities as a vehicle retailer. By saying, I give no warranty is misleading to a consumer. You simply cannot say no warranty offered as its very bad practice, to imply you are  trying to disolve your responsibilities. You have fundamentally and bluntly screwed yourself....................... 

[andymc1973 199]

You’re fucked, trade can’t withhold a punters rights 

[Lucas 9]

Looks like the punter did something wrong and the car can't start anymore, so the punter does not allow you to start it. This is the only reason I could come up.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Lucas

[Tony911 79]

9 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Tony, any warranty given is in addition to your resonsibilities as a vehicle retailer. By saying, I give no warranty is misleading to a consumer. You simply cannot say no warranty offered as its very bad practice, to imply you are  trying to disolve your responsibilities. You have fundamentally and bluntly screwed yourself....................... 

I just don't think you have read the full thread to actually understand. Thanks for the input

7 minutes ago, andymc1973 said:

You’re fucked, trade can’t withhold a punters rights 

Have you read the full thread? 

Just to add customer has contacted us last week saying he is cancelling insurance and the tax of the vehicle and if any damage caused to the car its not his responsibility. The car has been dumped outside on the road 100 yards from where the garage is which makes us believe the garage has used it for parts and not kept it on their property instead left up the road. Question is if dvla take the car away and scrap it would we still have to refund if we lost even if the car has been scrapped? 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

3 minutes ago, Tony911 said:

I just don't think you have read the full thread to actually understand. Thanks for the input

Have you read the full thread? 

I’ve read the full thread, you shock me. Did you ensure your unroadworthy vehicle was sold as unroadworthy and trailored away ? No.....

did you fully inspect the car to ensure it was safe to be on the road.... no

You are implying It’s sold “as is” you simply cannot do that to the consumer.

Your actions reflect badly on all of us who understand our responsibilities. To sell unroadworthy you need to cover yourself. There’s no excuses. 

[Tony911 79]

9 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

I’ve read the full thread, you shock me. Did you ensure your unroadworthy vehicle was sold as unroadworthy and trailored away ? No.....

did you fully inspect the car to ensure it was safe to be on the road.... no

You are implying It’s sold “as is” you simply cannot do that to the consumer.

Your actions reflect badly on all of us who understand our responsibilities. To sell unroadworthy you need to cover yourself. There’s no excuses. 

That is why we went to collect the car, are you sure you read all the thread or just the first section? 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

Just now, Tony911 said:

That is why we went to collect the car, are you sure you read all the thread or just the first section? 

You let an uninspected car on the road as a Retailer? 

What checks did you do to ensure the car was safe and roadworthy? 

Too add, as soon as you say no warranty you lose. Unless the car is sold as unroadworthy and trailored away. 

 

[Tony911 79]

Just now, Arfur Dealy said:

You let an uninspected car on the road as a Retailer? 

Thanks for your input but i just dont think you have read the post fully to understand the situation we are in and also what has happened. The problem is the return of the car has not gone well, please read the thread and get back with something useful rather then negative input as i thought this was for helping out each other.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

I’m helping you. I’m telling you the truth. Get your paperwork right, sell your cars right and cover your ass. 

Youve attractred a twat because you’ve left yourself vulnerable. You should know your responsibilities and liabilities. 

You say you’ve been in the trade for 10 years......... 

[Tony911 79]

1 minute ago, Arfur Dealy said:

I’m helping you. I’m telling you the truth. Get your paperwork right, sell your cars right and cover your ass. 

Youve attractred a twat because you’ve left yourself vulnerable. You should know your responsibilities and liabilities. 

The help we need is we have been to collect the car and the garage has lost the keys, they agreed to have a new key made and deliver the car back to us at their cost. We told them we will be having the car inspected before any money is refunded and they have told us we cannot start the car or inspect it. Now can you help with this??????? 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

10 minutes ago, Tony911 said:

The help we need is we have been to collect the car and the garage has lost the keys, they agreed to have a new key made and deliver the car back to us at their cost. We told them we will be having the car inspected before any money is refunded and they have told us we cannot start the car or inspect it. Now can you help with this??????? 

That’s irrelevant, because if you went to court you would lose on the way you sold the car, an unchecked unroadworthy vehicle sold potentially denying the consumers right. 

The fact his case was struck out helps you, but the foundation to this is HOW you sold the car, everything else is irrelevant. 

There’s not a chance he will take you back to court. Write to him by RD stating the car must be returned by blah with keys and documents for a full inspection. 

 

 

 

[Tony911 79]

1 minute ago, Arfur Dealy said:

That’s irrelevant, because if you went to court you would lose on the way you sold the car, an unchecked unroadworthy vehicle sold potentially denying the consumers right. 

The fact his case was struck out helps you, but the foundation to this is HOW you sold the car, everything else is irrelevant. 

There’s not a chance he will take you back to court. Write to him by RD stating the car must be returned by blah with keys and documents for a full inspection. 

 

 

 

Thanks to this customer this is why we now advertise all our part exchange stock as spares or repairs or export only and written ams signed on invoice. 

[Tony911 79]

Just to add customer has contacted us last week saying he is cancelling insurance and the tax of the vehicle and if any damage caused to the car its not his responsibility. The car has been dumped outside on the road 100 yards from where the garage is which makes us believe the garage has used it for parts and not kept it on their property instead left up the road. Question is if dvla take the car away and scrap it would we still have to refund if we lost even if the car has been scrapped? 

[James01 21]

22 minutes ago, Tony911 said:

Just to add customer has contacted us last week saying he is cancelling insurance and the tax of the vehicle and if any damage caused to the car its not his responsibility. The car has been dumped outside on the road 100 yards from where the garage is which makes us believe the garage has used it for parts and not kept it on their property instead left up the road. Question is if dvla take the car away and scrap it would we still have to refund if we lost even if the car has been scrapped? 

The guy is an idiot, trying to make up rules and laws as he pleases. The car is his and is his responsibility to tax and insure it while in his possession. Any damages caused would not be down to you but him or the garage who have the car at the moment. If the car gets impounded as he has failed to tax it that is down to him. 

I personally would take a firm stance with him and send him a recorded delivery letter stating that you want he car returned within 14 days for a full inspection. There will be no further correspondence or offers made until the inspection has been carried out. 

This is your legal right to do so, just like you cannot deny someone their consumer rights, they cannot deny yours. The law is there to protect both parties. 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by James01

[trade vet 697]

Tony,on your own admission you have been a dealer for 10 years,so you are considered to be a proffessional.I have to say ‘what have you been doing’,you must know that ‘protecting the down side ‘is an important requirement of the job.You appear to have failed at the point of sale and when the customer first complained, how and when did you reply.The judge will focus on such things.....You can’t expect a lot of sympathy from us guys.Also it’s 2 grand,what is the biggest hit you have taken so far.

[Tony911 79]

55 minutes ago, trade vet said:

Tony,on your own admission you have been a dealer for 10 years,so you are considered to be a proffessional.I have to say ‘what have you been doing’,you must know that ‘protecting the down side ‘is an important requirement of the job.You appear to have failed at the point of sale and when the customer first complained, how and when did you reply.The judge will focus on such things.....You can’t expect a lot of sympathy from us guys.Also it’s 2 grand,what is the biggest hit you have taken so far.

This is the first time in 10 years we have ever been threatened with legal action as we always deal with any complaints in a professional manner. You seem to have had quite a few issues, so maybe you could fill us in on what we can expect after going to collect the car with no result and now they want to return the car back to us but we can't start or inspect it? We only sell quality used cars which are fully inspected and any faults rectified even new turbos flywheels and clutch kits this way the customer is happy and will pay the full amount without hesitation as the cars are right. Just to add from the moment he broke down we have been in contact with him trying to rectify the problem which caused him to break down but we wont take responsibility for the glow plugs as he was fully aware there was an issue big or small before leaving a deposit

Edited December 21, 2018 by Tony911

[NOACROSS 414]

Tony- this is obviously worrying you, and -as I said before- you've gotta ask yourself if it's worth the drama and headache.  Only you can answer that.

For me, I would let them do their worst.  I would fire it straight up to Lawgistics and get some suitably worded recorded delivery correspondence sent out explaining your position and the fact you're prepared to take it all the way if necessary.  Also that as the car's official registered keeper, they are responsible for it.

I think you have a great case to defend should it get that far, but you need really tie it down officially quickly. 

Lawgistics will help you over the phone and there are various levels of membership.  

Otherwise- bite the bullet, refund and move on.

[Trident 24]

I'm baffled, why on earth are you taking any instruction from the garage? go collect it on a truck (or have them deliver) keys or no keys, recover it back, inspect it and refund the customer accordingly, if the key  has been lost, then its a deduction along with anything else you can 'prove' has been removed or replaced. The customer is responsible for the agreement between him and the garage and if that garage has acted fraudulently or unprofessionally (losing keys!!! ffs) its between the customer and that garage and he will have to chase them for the refund of your loses which you have no choice but to deduct from him.   My point is the thrid party has no involvement and cannot dictate whether you do or do not start the vehicle.